ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Down

Author Topic: Generator Tails  (Read 6044 times)

Mike Sokol

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3361
  • Lead instructor for the No~Shock~Zone
    • No~Shock~Zone Electrical Safety
Re: Generator Tails
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2017, 01:35:41 pm »

What "real" generator has 14-50 outlets? 

We typically rent in a 20K or 60K diesel generator with cams, but I've got a bunch of small stages at wine and jazz festivals to do this summer that don't want the stench of diesel. And there's just no room for a trailer mounted genny anywhere near the stages. I had that exact problem over last weekend. Even though the diesel genny was 50+ feet behind the stage, when the wind blew the right way the singers were choking from the fumes. I can rent a Honda EU7000iS with a 120/240-volt twist lock output which I can adapt to my existing 100 ft of 50-amp 14-50 feeder, then tie into my Lex distro camloks. So I need a simple way to go from a 14-50 receptacle to camloks. If we like this setup I'll purchase a EU7000iS for these mid-size gigs. The little stages I'm already running off of my Honda EU3000iS genny which works great. 
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 02:21:23 pm by Mike Sokol »
Logged
Mike Sokol
mike@noshockzone.org
www.NoShockZone.org

Cailen Waddell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1428
Re: Generator Tails
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2017, 08:14:23 am »

Is there the possibility, if you like the setup, of fitting an inlet on your distro and putting in a transfer switch?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged

Mike Sokol

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3361
  • Lead instructor for the No~Shock~Zone
    • No~Shock~Zone Electrical Safety
Re: Generator Tails
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2017, 10:32:58 am »

Is there the possibility, if you like the setup, of fitting an inlet on your distro and putting in a transfer switch?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No, it's a 400-amp Lex with Camlok INs and OUTs. The other sides are full of Edison and 30-amp/3-Phase twist-locks.
Logged
Mike Sokol
mike@noshockzone.org
www.NoShockZone.org

Matthew Knischewsky

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 403
Re: Generator Tails
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2017, 11:11:31 pm »

No, it's a 400-amp Lex with Camlok INs and OUTs. The other sides are full of Edison and 30-amp/3-Phase twist-locks.

Mike, does your Lex distro have a single phase/3 phase switch? I'm guessing not, there's so many compromises with what you're trying to accomplish with the equipment you have available that I suggest re-thinking your approach. The best way to get from 14-50 to cam is with an adapter box, because SOOW really should not be fanned out to Cams, and because multiple single conductors should not be used with a multi conductor plug.

The potential red flag for me however, is going from a single phase source to a 3 phase distribution panel. There is not a correct way to power up all 3 of the phases, so 1/3rd of the receptacles will not be energized. Each of the 30amp 3 phase twists will be missing a phase. Paralleling one of the hots to 2 cams is a bad idea. Neutral conductors could be overloaded in this scenario.

I suggest using a single phase distro with a 14-50 inlet as a much more practical solution.

I think we can all agree here that code violations do sometimes occur in the real world, and maybe there's some special adapters/cables used for testing in the shop, emergencies,  etc. That's not what we're talking about here though, we are discussing using this on a show and that's where my line is drawn. We should always strive for best practices on this forum and this is one of those situations where sure, if you're on a desert island and this is what you have it might be made to work. But in this situation there's not a great way to connect your panel without some serious compromises.

Matt

Logged

Mike Sokol

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3361
  • Lead instructor for the No~Shock~Zone
    • No~Shock~Zone Electrical Safety
Re: Generator Tails
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2017, 08:02:32 am »

I suggest using a single phase distro with a 14-50 inlet as a much more practical solution.

I already have a Furman single-phase 100-amp distro with a 14-50 plug on the inlet and six 120-volt Edison outlets. And it works great for my B-rig stage which is all 120-volts. However, my A-rig stage has a rack of iTech amps for the monitors that are all wired for 2-pole 208 volts. So without rewiring everything, I don't have a simple way to run my iTech amps from my 120-volt/100-amp distro. There's several pavilions in the area that already have 14-50 receptacles for food fryers and such, plus I can get a Honda EU7000is genny for these gigs. And several of these gigs this summer are running both A and B stages at the same time on opposite sides of the parks. That means I need to provide two separate distro systems. This is the driving logic behind figuring out a way to create a 14-50 to Cam adapter.

But not to worry. My plan is to run a short length (10 ft) of 6/4 SOOW between the 14-50P connector and a small box, using the correct compression strain relief. Then I'll run four short lengths of 6 SC SOOW (3 ft), between the box and the Camloks. Each piece of single conductor will have its own compression strain relief. And this will be a waterproof box without knockouts. I don't need to energize all three phases of the Lex, just two will do. And then I'll be able to use my Whirlwind PL2 spider boxes for stage power, as well as my custom 3-phase break-out for the iTech rack which only has two amps between X-Y phases. Of course the amps will now be getting 240 volts instead of 208 volts, but they're just fine with that. Because I'm not energizing the third pahse of the Lex there's no chance of neutral overload. And this is just a 50-amp per leg input, so there's no way to overload the 250-amp breaker and wiring in the Lex.

This seems like a reasonable and safe way to run both my A and B rigs at the same time without resorting to building yet a third power distro system for a situation that might happen only half a dozen times this season.

I'll send pictures once I have this built for review.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2017, 12:11:15 pm by Mike Sokol »
Logged
Mike Sokol
mike@noshockzone.org
www.NoShockZone.org

Matthew Knischewsky

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 403
Re: Generator Tails
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2017, 02:20:12 pm »

<SNIP>

I'll send pictures once I have this built for review.

Sounds like you've got this thought through. With 3 phase 208 distribution only powered up single phase you also have to watch that there's nothing accidentally on the un-energized 3rd phase. More than one 208 item connected to that phase and you could have some fun series circuits on your hands.

I feel your frustration with having to spend $$$ on special items that only get used a handful of times a year. In my area there's plenty of indoor and outdoor venues that are single phase, for a variety of reasons. I have always advocated that distribution to racks should be single phase unless it can be guaranteed that they will always be run 3 phase. A local company has Crown V Racks, which are 3 phase, but if we need to run them single phase we don't use the rack distribution we use dedicated single phase cables to each amplifier, and another adapter to power up the network switch in the rack.

It's a major pain to get 3 phase distribution to work with a single phase feed, if someone makes a mistake and plugs something into the wrong place it could get expensive fast.
Logged

Mike Sokol

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3361
  • Lead instructor for the No~Shock~Zone
    • No~Shock~Zone Electrical Safety
Re: Generator Tails
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2017, 02:32:33 pm »

It's a major pain to get 3 phase distribution to work with a single phase feed, if someone makes a mistake and plugs something into the wrong place it could get expensive fast.

Yes, and since I'm the lead system tech as well as the A1 on these gigs, I can control the power hookups. But if we do well enough on these size shows to guarantee even more of them next season, then I'll build a dedicated single phase, 100-amp, 120/240 distro.
Logged
Mike Sokol
mike@noshockzone.org
www.NoShockZone.org

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Generator Tails
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2017, 02:32:33 pm »


Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.054 seconds with 22 queries.