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Author Topic: Need help with Auto-mixing console for conference room  (Read 7015 times)

Tim Hite

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Need help with Auto-mixing console for conference room
« on: June 06, 2017, 09:52:25 pm »

Current configuration is 13 channels of mics (Shure BX418d/s) and 2 stereo music devices for a small conference room. Looking to replace an older Yamaha analog board. Will be using local I/O initially. Needs to have automixing.

Outputs are to house PA, mono to video camera audio for broadcast, and out to listening assistive devices (bluetooth likely)

Currently looking between M32R and Yamaha LS9-16. Which has the better feature set for this sort of thing, in particular does the automaker type make a difference to justify the higher price Yamaha?

Are there any other devices I should be looking at for this application?
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Riley Casey

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Re: Need help with Auto-mixing console for conference room
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2017, 10:10:42 pm »

Unless the Midas version of the Behringer has much different software than the stock unit that console has only eight channels of automix capability .  The Yamaha LS9-16 has no auto-mixer capability inboard but an add on Dugan card would provide 16 channels.  You need to be sure the LS9 has the last firmware installed to be able to insert the Dugan post fader as it should be.  If the auto mix function on the M32 is the same as that in the XR18 its not as good an emulation of the Dugan as the Yamaha is.

Cailen Waddell

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Re: Need help with Auto-mixing console for conference room
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2017, 10:36:03 pm »

How much actual mixing is going on?  Perhaps this is a situation where a DSP with a controller is a better option...  something like a biamp... or other manufacturer depending on the desired control surface du Jour.  the atlas stuff is quite nice too....


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Mike Caldwell

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Re: Need help with Auto-mixing console for conference room
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2017, 10:36:11 pm »

Look at the Allen Heath Qu series. They have a 16 channel auto mix mode, they call it "D Classic". When I have used for panel discussions and question answer presentations it has worked great.

You probably do not want to assign the music sources to the auto mixer.

Mike Caldwell

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Re: Need help with Auto-mixing console for conference room
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2017, 10:45:14 pm »

How much actual mixing is going on?  Perhaps this is a situation where a DSP with a controller is a better option...  something like a biamp... or other manufacturer depending on the desired control surface du Jour.  the atlas stuff is quite nice too....


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If you figure the price of an Allen Heath Qu Pac or SB and the price a Bi Amp Nexia CS, for about the same money I feel you get a better auto mixer with the Allen Heath Qu's plus a lot of extra functionality

Tim McCulloch

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Re: Need help with Auto-mixing console for conference room
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2017, 12:15:17 am »

Yamaha QL.  Dugan-style automixer built in. 
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Scott Helmke

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Re: Need help with Auto-mixing console for conference room
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2017, 09:53:44 am »

Yamaha QL.  Dugan-style automixer built in.

+1 - About the same price as an LS9 plus Dugan card, with many more improvements.
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Tim Hite

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Re: Need help with Auto-mixing console for conference room
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2017, 12:49:02 pm »

Yamaha QL.  Dugan-style automixer built in.

Well, I called over to Dugan Sound Design and spoke to Dan Dugan. He recommended the Yamaha MRX7-D. . .which is an unsexy commercial matrix mixer, but happens to be exactly what I need in this case.

FWIW the QL is Dugan, not "Dugan-style" and is apparently much better than the emulations available. I have a friend doing location sound that has a few Sound Devices 688s and swears the real Dugan stuff works much better.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2017, 04:11:15 pm by Tim Hite »
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Need help with Auto-mixing console for conference room
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2017, 01:40:53 pm »

Well, I called over to Dugan Sound Design and spoke to Dan Dugan. He recommended the Yamaha MRX7-D. . .which is an unsexy commercial matrix mixer, but happens to be exactly what I need in this case.

FWIW the QL is Dugan, not "Dugan-style" and is apparently much better than the emulations available. I have a friend doing location sound that has a few Sound Devices 668s and swears the real Dugan stuff works much better.

I agree that Dugan works better (I've been having that discussion elsewhere).   I knew the original Dugan MY-card was all Dan's IP but wasn't sure if the firmware versions for the QL and CL were different.  I'd heard the internal versions were not the same but lacking an MY card to compare with I had no A/B eval, hence my use of "Dugan-style".
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Need help with Auto-mixing console for conference room
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2017, 03:55:23 pm »

Well, I called over to Dugan Sound Design and spoke to Dan Dugan. He recommended the Yamaha MRX7-D. . .which is an unsexy commercial matrix mixer, but happens to be exactly what I need in this case.
If Dan blessed it, it is surely OK.
Quote
FWIW the QL is Dugan, not "Dugan-style" and is apparently much better than the emulations available.

I have a friend doing location sound that has a few Sound Devices 668s and swears the real Dugan stuff works much better.

I haven't been able to find a 668? (There is a Sound devices 664 that does not appear to have AM)  There is a Sound devices 688 model that claims to have 2 different AM systems. "Dugan Speech System(tm)" and a "mix assist" (whatever that is). Dan Dugan's website mentions that he collaborated with them on the 688 that is using his automixing approach (Which suggests he blessed it too). 

Back before his patent expired there were a number of alternate AM approaches that didn't work near as well, in fact the early Altec AM models that licensed his patent didn't work that well either, barely following the gain algorithm tracking over the top 10 dB or so... Modern technology makes AM easier to implement, and operating in the digital domain makes it almost free, mostly just a software layer (speculation).

JR

PS: I'm not pimping any AM these days but absolutely positively don't use a 668 (because as far as I can tell it doesn't exist).
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Re: Need help with Auto-mixing console for conference room
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2017, 03:55:23 pm »


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