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Author Topic: A New First for Me  (Read 6219 times)

William Schnake

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A New First for Me
« on: June 04, 2017, 10:50:38 am »

This weekend we have been out doing a smaller festival.  This is our 13th year of doing this particular festival.  In all of the time that we have been doing this festival we have never encounter the problem that I had last night...not enough rig for the gig.  I was using a new EAW Radius RSX208L system, which sounded fantastic all weekend.  Five hang per side.  During last night's headline show the system clipped twice.  It was clear to me that I needed to have at least two or maybe three more cabinet per side, which were sitting in my shop. 

It definitely wasn't the system, it was my lack of doing my job correctly.  So, I f*cked-up!!  I have decided to return part of my fee, 25 percent, to the festival.  They didn't ask and we have had nothing but compliments from the bands, audience and festival organizers.  However I don't feel like I didn't do my job and that they didn't get what they paid for.

I won't make this mistake again.  Lesson learned...the hard way.

Bill
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: A New First for Me
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2017, 11:19:16 am »

If mains voltage was low, peak power output would sag at the square of the voltage drop.... 

JR
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Jean-Pierre Coetzee

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Re: A New First for Me
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2017, 12:37:51 pm »

What JR said, if its been the same system year after year and it is not too little something lese changed.

From a promoter point of view doing what you suggested will likely turn your already lifetime client even further to you since it can only improve your reputation with them.
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Mike Pyle

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Re: A New First for Me
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2017, 02:16:21 pm »

What part of the system clipped?
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Nils Erickson

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Re: A New First for Me
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2017, 02:43:56 pm »

If mains voltage was low, peak power output would sag at the square of the voltage drop.... 

JR
I had a similar thing happen to me just last night... plenty of power early in the day at sound check, but at show time, amps were limiting well before they should have and even went into protect a couple of times.  This was not at high SPL.  When I measured voltage at break, I saw 113V. 
I have not had this happen in years of using these amps, QSC PLX for mains and PL on subs.  This was the only explanation I could think of other than amp failure.  But 113v didn't strike me as so consequential and at that point, there was little to do about it.  Is that kind of small variation such a problem for these amps? 
Didn't mean to highjack, but seemed related...

Thanks,
Nils
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Stelios Mac

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Re: A New First for Me
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2017, 02:44:55 pm »

What do you mean by "clipped twice"? Doesn't come across as horribly bad, or maybe my definition of "Not enough rig for the gig" is different?
Certainly not ideal, but I've had to deal with much worse (Including a midrangey kind of distorted sound produced by some SRM450s that were being run - I'm guessing about 10dB - into limit...)
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: A New First for Me
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2017, 02:50:28 pm »

What do you mean by "clipped twice"? Doesn't come across as horribly bad, or maybe my definition of "Not enough rig for the gig" is different?
Certainly not ideal, but I've had to deal with much worse (Including a midrangey kind of distorted sound produced by some SRM450s that were being run - I'm guessing about 10dB - into limit...)

While I do agree that Bill's reaction seems "aggressive" if the problem did not effect artist or audience and may have been caused by an environmental condition.  Only he knows the relationship and to play Sunday morning post gig quarterback in that position is inappropriate.

Als Stelios there is not really a correlation to the operational space of a SRM450 and an integrated loudspeaker system that was being run.

Perhaps Bill was also just venting and a technical colonoscopy of the deployment is unwanted?

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Stelios Mac

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Re: A New First for Me
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2017, 03:08:35 pm »

Als Stelios there is not really a correlation to the operational space of a SRM450 and an integrated loudspeaker system that was being run.

Absolutely, I'd be crazy to imply such a thing. It was just an (extreme) example of what I consider not enough rig for the gig.

Obviously when you get to a higher level, artists and BEs expect to have quite a bit of headroom left in the system, I understand that. but I personally wouldn't call it Not enough rig for the gig if it just tickled the limiters on the outputs twice during the last song. Certainly not the end of the world. That's why I asked what he meant by "clipped twice".

By the way, that gig with the SRM450s I'm describing did require quite a lot more PA than a pair of 450s.
250ish people (maybe more? Maybe less? I'm not really good at this), outdoors, spread over a large area, no subs, rock music. I didn't even use any overheads, the PA couldn't keep up with the cymbals from the actual kit. You really could hear the cone almost tear itself apart for a split second now and then when the vocalists got loud, it was veeeery ugly.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: A New First for Me
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2017, 05:01:16 pm »

While I do agree that Bill's reaction seems "aggressive" if the problem did not effect artist or audience and may have been caused by an environmental condition.  Only he knows the relationship and to play Sunday morning post gig quarterback in that position is inappropriate.

Als Stelios there is not really a correlation to the operational space of a SRM450 and an integrated loudspeaker system that was being run.

Perhaps Bill was also just venting and a technical colonoscopy of the deployment is unwanted?

I'm confused, too, by Bill's use of "clipped".  Shit, clipping is a way of life somewhere in the signal chain unless/until you have clients willing to pay a great deal or as providers we're willing to make less money.

Unless Bill's problem manifested itself as an unhappy BE getting in the face of the promoter or organizers I'd be questioning refunding 25% of the gig as they'll expect that next year, or more gear for the same money - he knows his account better than us - but if it's that close to the edge already he's been well on his way to losing it for no reason at all.  Just sayin'.
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Re: A New First for Me
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2017, 05:22:13 pm »

I've learned to take enough time to abate the subjectivity of the moment in such cases.   I'd certainly want input from the client prior to offering any adjustment. 
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Re: A New First for Me
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2017, 05:22:13 pm »


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