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Author Topic: What do I need? New FOH B-rig  (Read 14055 times)

David Winners

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What do I need? New FOH B-rig
« on: June 01, 2017, 09:20:51 am »

Ok, so you guys (and gal) are always asking the same questions when people come here for system advice. I decided to lay out my requirements here in hopes of getting some sound advice before purchasing anything.

I provide sound for several bands, including my own, in local bars. There isn't much in the way of competition in the area. The only other sound company focuses on larger events than I am targeting. He runs Yorkville TX cabinets and has an X32. He also rents larger FOH systems for outdoor events. I am targeting local bands. I have a lot of interest from them as my reputation is growing and venues are no longer happy with a powered head running a pair of crap SOS. My business is growing because my clients are happy with the sound and service I provide. My goals with this system are to keep or improve the sound quality, and to make things more bomb proof for when someone else is driving the rig.

I currently use a QRx112/75 over SB180 passive rig. It doesn't belong to me, and I want to own my own gear.

My typical venue for this rig would be a 30' x 50' room with 12'-14' ceilings. Most have 2-3 dedicated 20A circuits on stage. SPL requirements are 105db C-slow at 16m. The acts range from old country to modern rock.

I do about 90-100 shows a year, ranging from $100 for a pair of SOS and me running sound / sometimes playing, to $300 for the full rig and me running sound. $7000 is my budget for FOH plus a couple more monitors.

I have all the mics, DIs, mixers, stands, racks etc. that I need. I would need cat 5 and Powercon jumpers if I went with a system that required those. I want a powered speaker system.

I am leaning heavily towards the Turbosound iQ family of speakers. I have some 10s and have used the 12s and I think they are a very good product for what they cost. I like the way they sound and I like the ultranet connectivity. I want to make a good business decision and get the highest ROI I can while still providing a quality service to my customers.

I'm not seeking justification for my choice in speakers. If it's a bad idea to go this route, I want to know that before I purchase any more iQ gear.

Thanks for your time and wisdom,

David
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Stelios Mac

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Re: What do I need? New FOH B-rig
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2017, 09:49:07 am »

What about some second hand EAW NT / Nexo PS15 / RCF TT?
A Pair of cased TT25As in good condition can be had for about $2.5k in Europe, a pair of TTS18As for roughly the same.
You may be able to find properly amplified & processed PS15s for a similar price, no idea about the EAWs.

They'll be heavier than the iQ speakers, but they should be more powerful, and would probably sound better.
I reckon they'd be much more flexible if you end up doing larger events later as well.
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Richard Penrose

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Re: What do I need? New FOH B-rig
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2017, 10:22:13 am »

I've had great results with my Yamaha DXR15's over a pair of QSC KW181 subs. This system is quite flexible as the DXR15's are capable of a pretty decent full range sound by themselves and for some gigs I just use these for FOH.
I recently ran sound for an event in a 300+ seated amphitheater and used the DXR15's by themselves as the load in was very difficult. I was considering using the KW181 subs but tried the DXR15's by themselves in the soundcheck first before I dragged them down some very difficult terrain!
The first act was a 40 piece choir with keys and bass guitar and the second act was a quartet playing a jazz set for the first half and soul/funk for the second half. The drums were fully miked and I had double bass for first half, electric bass for the second half plus 2x keys and three vocals. I was quite surprised at how good the sound was. The basses both sounded very full and clear with an amazing amount of depth and the drums also had great clarity, punch and depth for a single pair of speakers on poles! The keys sounded very natural and clear and the vocals all sounded stunning! I had a lot of people come to me at the end of the event commenting on how impressive the sound was.
I will say the performers in the band are all very experienced pros and have great sounding instruments and know how to get the best out of them. I also used decent mics (Telefunken M80, Audio Technica ATM710 condenser and Sennheiser E945 on the vocalists plus Sennheiser e604's on rack toms, Audix D6 on floor tom, MXL A55 on Kick and AKG D40 on snare) which helped.
Regarding the choir I used some Rode NT55's and they worked great at picking up the choir. I felt I could have possibly done with one more NT55 but on the whole I was very pleased with the results.
I love the QSC KW181 subs. They are still small and light enough to be able to lift by myself but put out a surprising amount of volume and punch. They also sound very musical and not woofy for their price! When I was shopping around for subs there were some decent alternatives to the KW181's but they were bigger and heavier.
If I had to replace my FOH speakers I would still buy the Yamaha DXR's and QSC KW181's. There are some new RCF NX speakers coming out at the end of the year (NX32a + NX45a) which I'm curious to hear based on the much larger compression driver, larger voice coils and lower crossover frequency. I've also heard the RCF 8003asII subs and they sounded very impressive for the price but are bigger and heavier than the KW181's and may be too much for me to manage by myself.
I've heard great things about the Yamaha DSR112's but I wouldn't replace my DXR15's with them unless I was planning to use subs on every gig I do. The EV ETX range looks good but heavy. Also the ETX tops have a noticeably higher amount of hiss. The JBL SRX range also looks good but there has been a lot of reliability issues with JBL ranges in the UK and some of the dealers I buy from have stopped selling them due to a lot of faulty returns.

As always, try to audition as many options as possible before you buy.
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Richard Penrose

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Re: What do I need? New FOH B-rig
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2017, 10:25:36 am »

I've seen the Nexo PS15's, L1200 subs and QSC amplifiers go for around your budget and that is a fantastic system but the OP wants wants powered speakers.
The RCF TT's are superb but heavy!!
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Stelios Mac

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Re: What do I need? New FOH B-rig
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2017, 10:47:22 am »

I've seen the Nexo PS15's, L1200 subs and QSC amplifiers go for around your budget and that is a fantastic system but the OP wants wants powered speakers.
The RCF TT's are superb but heavy!!

Eh, I missed the powered bit, you're right  ::)

The 25s are heavy indeed. But it's not that far off from other wooden 15" active cabs (DSR, KW & ETX are all around 28kg - The TT25A weigh 33kg).
When you factor in an amp rack, they should be a bit lighter that what he's currently using. The rack doesn't usually go on a stick, but still  ;D
The TT22As are almost identical in weight to other wooden 12" cabs (22 to 24 kg vs 24kg) and would be lighter than the QRX112s alone.

It's not really fair to compare wooden vs. plastic cabs in terms of weight. The wooden cab is always going to be quite a bit heavier, but a lot stiffer (no unwanted resonances) as well. It's a matter of priorities, I guess.
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Richard Penrose

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Re: What do I need? New FOH B-rig
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2017, 11:10:59 am »

Yes one of the reasons why I'm interested in the upcoming RCF NX32a/45a is they are wooden boxes but not too heavy! The NX45a with 15" and 3.5" drivers only weighs 23.4kg vs 28-32kg of similar products from other companies! At this weight I would still be able to put these on poles by myself which is a major consideration for anyone running a one man business.
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: What do I need? New FOH B-rig
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2017, 01:32:05 pm »

Are you just looking for speakers?
Mains, subs and monitors?
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Stelios Mac

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Re: What do I need? New FOH B-rig
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2017, 02:01:19 pm »

Are you just looking for speakers?
Mains, subs and monitors?
In the OP he states he's looking to get a FOH setup as well as a couple of monitors within a budget of $7k.
I assume that includes a pair of SOS, subs, and maybe two or so monitors.

-----------------

In response to the OP;
This may also be a useful resource:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9cew_5fldg
It's obviously not representative of the actual speaker's performance.
But it's a well-recorded video, and since you've heard the iQ (thus you've got a reference), you may be able to get a taste for how each system sounds using a pair of decent monitors or headphones.
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Patrick Cognitore

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Re: What do I need? New FOH B-rig
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2017, 02:16:30 pm »

...no longer happy with a powered head running a pair of crap SOS.
Does your listed budget include the need for a mixing board?
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Ray Aberle

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Re: What do I need? New FOH B-rig
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2017, 02:36:08 pm »

Does your listed budget include the need for a mixing board?

I think he has that covered already.

I have all the mics, DIs, mixers, stands, racks etc. that I need. I would need cat 5 and Powercon jumpers if I went with a system that required those. I want a powered speaker system.
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Re: What do I need? New FOH B-rig
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2017, 02:36:08 pm »


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