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Author Topic: Spaltial EQ  (Read 21329 times)

Steve M Smith

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Re: Spaltial EQ
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2017, 08:03:19 AM »

you STILL ARE NOT EQing the room.  You are simply changing the response within the room.

EQing for the room would be a better phrase.


Steve.
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Roland Clarke

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Re: Spaltial EQ
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2017, 08:17:04 AM »

The distance parameter is there, as explained in the video. You can download Resolution 2 for free from EAW and verify this.

The coverage is NOT the same as any other linearray. Look at the picture I took from the balcony. We're covering from the rear of the balcony we're we are seated in the picture(PA is 31m away, 8m below us) and we have EVEN coverage from a straight hang of 4 Annas a siden down to the first row(28m further forward and 14m below us).

The house system (10 boxes a side) isn't even close.

I wasn't disputing the even coverage, however, that must vary side to side at the front, I've seen ANNYA using side hangs.  In order to get the coverage you are talking about front row to back and more importantly in terms of 8m above to 10m? below can only be being achieved by phased, beam steering, not exactly new, Roland RSS demonstrated similar concepts (although used for imaging) around 20 years ago.  I am, however, much more doubtful about controlling distance as that requires at least two sources to null at a given point, great, however, physics means that they will null and sum at other places, the ever present problem with sub placement.  Everything in sound is a compromise and it's just deciding what compromises you or clients think the best.  As I mentioned earlier, many people I respect have given great reports on ANNYA, but it's good to understand where it's limitations are in considering where and how best to deploy it.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Spaltial EQ
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2017, 08:28:11 AM »

EQing for the room would be a better phrase.


Steve.
But I still say there is NO ROOM.

Only a seating area.

So maybe "Eqing for a seating area", but that is boring-----------
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Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

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Peter Morris

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Re: Spaltial EQ
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2017, 08:28:53 AM »

So, I've been playing around with the new air loss & spaltial EQ today. We're covering a 1500 seat venue in Uppsala, Sweden with 8 Annas (4 a side) and 4 Ottos. No fills or delays in use and it just sounds great in every seat!





I did a quick test of the Spatial EQ under the balcony, and it works as predicted, just as I would expect from EAW. We we're able to target a specific section of seats and EQ them independently from the rest of the venue.

BTW: here's a small paper for those interested in details:
http://eaw.com/docs/8_Software/Spatial%20EQ%20Technical%20Paper.pdf


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi Helge,

Having played with a MLA Compact I understand what you are describing it sounds great everywhere, the same tonal balance in every seat. FWIW I also own some EAW DSAs, the start of this technology. We use them for some small theatre gigs.

Psycho-acoustic question given that you can make it more or less "measure" the same in every seat did you feel that you need slightly less VHF at the back of the room to sound right because your brain was expecting less HF because of the distance?

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Helge A Bentsen

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Re: Spaltial EQ
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2017, 09:48:44 AM »

Hi Helge,

Having played with a MLA Compact I understand what you are describing it sounds great everywhere, the same tonal balance in every seat. FWIW I also own some EAW DSAs, the start of this technology. We use them for some small theatre gigs.

Psycho-acoustic question given that you can make it more or less "measure" the same in every seat did you feel that you need slightly less VHF at the back of the room to sound right because your brain was expecting less HF because of the distance?

No, I didn't feel the need for it, the new air-loss calculator gives you the option of selecting extension point in frequency and distance from the array versus high frequency headrom. I put the PA in balanced and it rolled off the HF in the far seats to conserve headroom, the resulting frequency balance lined up pretty well with my expections.

This is one of the systems that you gotta hear and measure to belive, it sounds amazing and has a even coverage beyond most conventional systems.



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Mike Hedden

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Re: Spaltial EQ
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2017, 10:56:29 AM »

Hi Helge,

Having played with a MLA Compact I understand what you are describing it sounds great everywhere, the same tonal balance in every seat. FWIW I also own some EAW DSAs, the start of this technology. We use them for some small theatre gigs.

Psycho-acoustic question given that you can make it more or less "measure" the same in every seat did you feel that you need slightly less VHF at the back of the room to sound right because your brain was expecting less HF because of the distance?

Looking at this space I'm reminded of an old quote, "The ancients have stolen our discoveries".  This room could easily have even coverage with just a couple cabinets per side.  This isn't a Danley plug either, yeah we make them that would do the job but so do other folks including EAW.  The idea that it takes eight full range cabinets along with eight subs as well as a train car full of processing strikes me as silly.    Audiophiles have a phrase to address the quest for absolute fidelity, straight wire with gain.  Pro audio appears to be going in the opposite direction.

Mike Hedden
Danley Sound Labs, Inc.
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Helge A Bentsen

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Re: Spaltial EQ
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2017, 11:35:24 AM »

Looking at this space I'm reminded of an old quote, "The ancients have stolen our discoveries".  This room could easily have even coverage with just a couple cabinets per side.  This isn't a Danley plug either, yeah we make them that would do the job but so do other folks including EAW.  The idea that it takes eight full range cabinets along with eight subs as well as a train car full of processing strikes me as silly.    Audiophiles have a phrase to address the quest for absolute fidelity, straight wire with gain.  Pro audio appears to be going in the opposite direction.

Mike Hedden
Danley Sound Labs, Inc.

Mike, I call BS on this one.

Archieving even coverage in a room like this with one or two boxes a side is extremly unlikely, most likely impossible. Doing it with four cabinets a side like we did is a huge achievement, and its really an breattaking experience to have the same tonality and extremely even level all around the venue.

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Stephen Kirby

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Re: Spaltial EQ
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2017, 01:41:00 PM »

Another case of audio being like the parable of the blind men and the elephant.  People focus on various aspects, often to the exclusion of others.  This is a focus on spectral balance.  My experience is that audiophiles are often fairly tolerant of minor spectral imbalances, focusing instead on transparency or three dimensional imaging, after more of a "you are there" experience.
It is encouraging that this system gets good performance out of a "dash" and avoids the blur of multiple arrivals from a long line.  Although I get Mike's point.  I've heard the QX in a club and there was none of that typical dash hardness, much more transparent sounding.
When I worked at Dolby and participated in listening sessions on equipment in development it was always interesting how different engineers would fixate on different aspects of the sound.  Often completely missing something that was glaring to someone else.  And these were major players in the audio world.  Which is why we had a group do them.
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Mike Hedden

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Re: Spaltial EQ
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2017, 01:42:45 PM »

Mike, I call BS on this one.

Archieving even coverage in a room like this with one or two boxes a side is extremly unlikely, most likely impossible. Doing it with four cabinets a side like we did is a huge achievement, and its really an breattaking experience to have the same tonality and extremely even level all around the venue.
Helge,
I don't dispute your experience I'm merely saying that I too have experienced consistent coverage and fidelity in similar sized rooms with just a couple boxes a side.  I've worked on thousands of projects.   A relatively narrow 1500 seater with a raked seating plane and loads of lateral seats sitting well within the Haas fusion zone as well as sufficient loudspeaker trim height is pretty straightforward.
By the way I've been told for years what's impossible. Its part of what makes this adventure so much fun!

Mike Hedden
Danley Sound Labs, Inc.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Spaltial EQ
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2017, 02:37:39 PM »

A
It is encouraging that this system gets good performance out of a "dash" and avoids the blur of multiple arrivals from a long line. 
This is a VERY important point, that is often forgotten.

It is one thing to achieve "even spectral balance" in a model or even when measuring, using a steady state signal, such as pink noise.

But the SONIC QUALITY of transient signals is often quite a different story.

When you have multiple arrivals (like out of a typical line) you will have a smeared signal-especially on percussive type signals (drums, piano etc) and the overtones will become less defined on other instruments.

A simple response measurement does not show this. 

No matter how "advanced" the processing is, the most realistic sound is GOING to be a single source-just like the original signal.

It depends on what you are looking for, cool toys, cool looks, sonic accuracy, selling lots of expensive cabinets, hiding the cabinets, greater profits, providing value to the customer etc etc.  It is all a matter of compromise and choice.
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Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Spaltial EQ
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2017, 02:37:39 PM »


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