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Author Topic: 2 way radios  (Read 15651 times)

Rob Spence

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Re: 2 way radios
« Reply #70 on: September 27, 2018, 11:16:27 am »

Which model?

CP200 16ch model.

I still use VHF. Not much competition down there.



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Andrew Broughton

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Re: 2 way radios
« Reply #71 on: September 27, 2018, 06:33:58 pm »

CP200 16ch model.

How did you manage to get the programming software?
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Rob Spence

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Re: 2 way radios
« Reply #72 on: September 27, 2018, 10:12:17 pm »

How did you manage to get the programming software?
Bought it on eBay.


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rob at lynxaudioservices dot com

Dealer for: AKG, Allen & Heath, Ashley, Astatic, Audix, Blue Microphones, CAD, Chauvet, Community, Countryman, Crown, DBX, Electro-Voice, FBT, Furman, Heil, Horizon, Intellistage, JBL, Lab Gruppen, Mid Atlantic, On Stage Stands, Pelican, Peterson Tuners, Presonus, ProCo, QSC, Radial, RCF, Sennheiser, Shure, SKB, Soundcraft, TC Electronics, Telex, Whirlwind and others

Tom Provenza

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Re: 2 way radios
« Reply #73 on: September 28, 2018, 06:26:30 am »

Bought it on eBay.


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Which indicates it was an illegal copy and/or the seller violated the license agreement they signed when originally purchasing the software from Motorola.

It is not a big deal for anyone to legally purchase Motorola software, they just make it more of a process (and costly) than the Chinese brands.

To be clear, this post isn’t to criticize Rob, but rather to point out how seriously MSI takes their software and the processes they have used over many years to stay compliant to this issue of controlling how their radios can be programmed.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 06:41:16 am by Tom Provenza »
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Nick Falbo

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Re: 2 way radios
« Reply #74 on: October 15, 2018, 08:05:45 pm »

Those frequencies are not available for business operations, only personal and family.

Not true for all non-licensed frequencies, there are frequenceies in the 900mhz ISM Band (the Motorola DTR series use this) band that are license free for business radios, and the MURS frequencies can also be used without a licence for business use. In the United States, the Multi-Use Radio Service (MURS) is a licensed by rule two-way radio service similar to Citizens Band (CB). Established by the U.S. Federal Communications Commission in the fall of 2000, MURS created a radio service allowing for licensed by rule (Part 95) operation in a narrow selection of the VHF band, with a power limit of 2 watts. The FCC formally defines MURS as "a private, two-way, short-distance voice or data communications service for personal or business activities of the general public." MURS stations may not be connected to the public telephone network, may not be used for store and forward operations, and radio repeaters are not permitted.

Here is the text of FCC Part 95 Subsection J: §95.2703   Definitions, MURS.
MURS. A two-way, short distance voice or data communication service for facilitating personal or business activities of the general public.

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Nick Falbo

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Re: 2 way radios
« Reply #75 on: October 15, 2018, 08:14:34 pm »

Yes.

47CFR §2.803    Marketing of radio frequency devices prior to equipment authorization.
      (a) Marketing, as used in this section, includes sale or lease, or offering for sale or lease, including advertising for sale or lease, or importation, shipment, or distribution for the purpose of selling or leasing or offering for sale or lease.
      (b) General rule. No person may market a radio frequency device unless:
      (1) For devices subject to authorization under certification, the device has been authorized in accordance with the rules in subpart J of this chapter and is properly identified and labeled as required by § 2.925 and other relevant sections in this chapter; or
      (2) For devices subject to authorization under verification or Declaration of Conformity in accordance with the rules in subpart J of this chapter, the device complies with all applicable technical, labeling, identification and administrative requirements; or
      (3) For devices that do not require a grant of equipment authorization under subpart J of this chapter but must comply with the specified technical standards prior to use, the device complies with all applicable, technical, labeling, identification and administrative requirements.
      (c) Exceptions. The following marketing activities are permitted prior to equipment authorization:
      (1) Activities under market trials conducted pursuant to subpart H of part 5.
      (2) Limited marketing is permitted, as described in the following text, for devices that could be authorized under the current rules; could be authorized under waivers of such rules that are in effect at the time of marketing; or could be authorized under rules that have been adopted by the Commission but that have not yet become effective. These devices may not be operated unless permitted by § 2.805.
      (i) Conditional sales contracts (including agreements to produce new devices manufactured in accordance with designated specifications) are permitted between manufacturers and wholesalers or retailers provided that delivery is made contingent upon compliance with the applicable equipment authorization and technical requirements.
      (ii) A radio frequency device that is in the conceptual, developmental, design or pre-production stage may be offered for sale solely to business, commercial, industrial, scientific or medical users (but not an offer for sale to other parties or to end users located in a residential environment) if the prospective buyer is advised in writing at the time of the offer for sale that the equipment is subject to the FCC rules and that the equipment will comply with the appropriate rules before delivery to the buyer or to centers of distribution.
      (iii) (A) A radio frequency device may be advertised or displayed, (e.g., at a trade show or exhibition) if accompanied by a conspicuous notice containing this language:
        This device has not been authorized as required by the rules of the Federal Communications Commission. This device is not, and may not be, offered for sale or lease, or sold or leased, until authorization is obtained.
      (B) If the device being displayed is a prototype of a device that has been properly authorized and the prototype, itself, is not authorized due to differences between the prototype and the authorized device, this language may be used instead: Prototype. Not for Sale.
      (iv) An evaluation kit as defined in § 2.1 may be sold provided that:
      (A) Sales are limited to product developers, software developers, and system integrators;
      (B) The following notice is included with the kit:
      FCC NOTICE: This kit is designed to allow:
      (1) Product developers to evaluate electronic components, circuitry, or software associated with the kit to determine whether to incorporate such items in a finished product and
      (2) Software developers to write software applications for use with the end product. This kit is not a finished product and when assembled may not be resold or otherwise marketed unless all required FCC equipment authorizations are first obtained. Operation is subject to the condition that this product not cause harmful interference to licensed radio stations and that this product accept harmful interference. Unless the assembled kit is designed to operate under part 15, part 18 or part 95 of this chapter, the operator of the kit must operate under the authority of an FCC license holder or must secure an experimental authorization under part 5 of this chapter.
      (C) The kit is labeled with the following legend: For evaluation only; not FCC approved for resale; and
      (D) Any radiofrequency transmitter employed as part of an evaluation kit shall be designed to comply with all applicable FCC technical rules, including frequency use, spurious and out-of-band emission limits, and maximum power or field strength ratings applicable to final products that would employ the components or circuitry to be evaluated.
      (d) Importation. The provisions of subpart K of this part continue to apply to imported radio frequency devices.

No. Because they are marketed to the Amateur (HAM) radio market which does not have the same regulations. When you buy one of those radios they come with a warning that they are not Part 90 certified and are not for use non Amateur Radio Frequencies. Baofeng also makes Part 90 certified products like the UV82C which is certified to for use on commercial frequencies as does TYT. Radios that are not Part 90 certified can be used on amateur frequencies, and radios that are Part 90 certified can be used on both amateur and commercial frequencies.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 08:41:21 pm by Nick Falbo »
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Rob Spence

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Re: 2 way radios
« Reply #76 on: October 15, 2018, 09:40:15 pm »

Not true for all non-licensed frequencies, there are frequenceies in the 900mhz ISM Band (the Motorola DTR series use this) band that are license free for business radios, and the MURS frequencies can also be used without a licence for business use. In the United States, the Multi-Use Radio Service (MURS) is a licensed by rule two-way radio service similar to Citizens Band (CB). Established by the U.S. Federal Communications Commission in the fall of 2000, MURS created a radio service allowing for licensed by rule (Part 95) operation in a narrow selection of the VHF band, with a power limit of 2 watts. The FCC formally defines MURS as "a private, two-way, short-distance voice or data communications service for personal or business activities of the general public." MURS stations may not be connected to the public telephone network, may not be used for store and forward operations, and radio repeaters are not permitted.

Here is the text of FCC Part 95 Subsection J: §95.2703   Definitions, MURS.
MURS. A two-way, short distance voice or data communication service for facilitating personal or business activities of the general public.

Exactly. I use the MURS frequencies.



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Henry Cohen

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Re: 2 way radios
« Reply #77 on: October 15, 2018, 10:12:00 pm »

Not true for all non-licensed frequencies, there are frequenceies in the 900mhz ISM Band (the Motorola DTR series use this) band that are license free for business radios, and the MURS frequencies can also be used without a licence for business use. In the United States, the Multi-Use Radio Service (MURS) is a licensed by rule two-way radio service similar to Citizens Band (CB). Established by the U.S. Federal Communications Commission in the fall of 2000, MURS created a radio service allowing for licensed by rule (Part 95) operation in a narrow selection of the VHF band, with a power limit of 2 watts. The FCC formally defines MURS as "a private, two-way, short-distance voice or data communications service for personal or business activities of the general public." MURS stations may not be connected to the public telephone network, may not be used for store and forward operations, and radio repeaters are not permitted.

Here is the text of FCC Part 95 Subsection J: §95.2703   Definitions, MURS.
MURS. A two-way, short distance voice or data communication service for facilitating personal or business activities of the general public.

My response was to the Rob's mention of UHF frequencies. MURS is VHF, As for the DTR;s you are correct, but I was still referring to the mid-UHF business band; 450-512. I should have been clearer about that.
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Henry Cohen

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Henry Cohen

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Re: 2 way radios
« Reply #78 on: October 15, 2018, 10:25:52 pm »

No. Because they are marketed to the Amateur (HAM) radio market which does not have the same regulations. When you buy one of those radios they come with a warning that they are not Part 90 certified and are not for use non Amateur Radio Frequencies. Baofeng also makes Part 90 certified products like the UV82C which is certified to for use on commercial frequencies as does TYT. Radios that are not Part 90 certified can be used on amateur frequencies, and radios that are Part 90 certified can be used on both amateur and commercial frequencies.

There are many folk who will point out those non-certified radios are marketed to the business band (and even the public safety) community, not to the Amateurs. Walk around an IWCE show sometime. And if the radios are indeed for Amateurs, why do they tune to exactly the business band frequencies in major use?

But the topic at hand was radios for use in business application, not by Amateurs. 
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Henry Cohen

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Nick Falbo

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Re: 2 way radios
« Reply #79 on: October 15, 2018, 11:02:19 pm »

There are many folk who will point out those non-certified radios are marketed to the business band (and even the public safety) community, not to the Amateurs. Walk around an IWCE show sometime. And if the radios are indeed for Amateurs, why do they tune to exactly the business band frequencies in major use?

But the topic at hand was radios for use in business application, not by Amateurs.

Because they make these radios for world wide use. In other countries there are frequencies that are available for non licensed use, etc. Build one model, sell it worldwide. Saves them money. Think about it this way, they can do it but ability does not mean legal to do so. Your car may be able to do 120mph but it is not legal to do so on most roadways. All of the of the cheap chinese stuff is able to be considered HAM radio equipment becuause of the FCC Type 97 Rules. Ham radio (and the equipment) is covered under Part 97, which means you can us a Yaesu, Baofeng, Wouxun, or any homemade or modified device. Part 97 does not require special equipment certification or approval, except commercially sold models do require FCC Part 15 compliance (note it is "compliance", not "certification", big difference and all radios that are imported will not be granted through customs without said compliance). Part 97 is rules for the person aka the licensee, and it is up to the person to ensure their equipment falls within the specs, and the actual Baofengs do. There are some fake Baofengs that fail but that is another story for another day.

As far as being sold to public safety, i don't know many areas that operate analog any more. We installed the APCO 25 radio system at my fire hall and throughout my county 10 years ago and the State operates both an APCO 25 and Opensky system none of which can use any of the analog radios.
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