Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Ivan Beaver]

Nathan - Download the Danley software and start playing.

This is a great way to learn about some capabilities.

Do this for all loudspeakers you are looking at.

One of the best ways it to put out mics at various positions-from the closest to the furthest listening positions.

Then turn the levels to show max spl.  This is done is different ways in different programs.

Danley-for instance-defaults to max SPL, but you can turn down individual boxes as needed.

Then compare the max SPLs and the difference in levels between the different listening positions.

This can be VERY eye opening.

Coverage maps are one thing-but they vary quite a bit in colors, db difference between colors, patch size etc.

But many line array programs are only 2D, so you can't look at a coverage map easily

Coverage is great for looking at that aspect, but mics on axis can tell quite a bit about actual SPL capabilities.

[Nathan Riddle]

You confuse the need with the solution.

I've spent 35 years learning to make better sound than my competitors/contemporaries.  For 1/4 the money you can deliver better performance than a 'dash'.  If your customers are willing to pay more for inferior audio I say "take the money and hold your nose (or ears)".  That's selling to your market and I fully grok that concept as my boss expects me to make money from his investment in hardware.  That said I have a very strong influence on those hardware purchases and tend to spend his money in ways that delivers better audio with less hassle even when the customer wants something I'd never, every recommend.

You conflate a commercial solution with acoustic need, and that's why I consider the comparison to be acoustically invalid.

Ahh, I think I get it. I'm comparing two data points rather than just one complicating matters of comparison.

And it's not that I'm comparing two data points it's that I keep trying to simplify the comparisons to the point that they are meaningless.

The reason for simplifying the situation was to help define the crux in comparison. I feel it leads to a more scientific/systematic approach.

Once we have established that A vs B compare in an identical situation we can then fix other issues (deployment) and then we can arrive a final metric that establishes value.

That said I have a very strong influence on those hardware purchases and tend to spend his money in ways that delivers better audio with less hassle even when the customer wants something I'd never, every recommend.

Ultimately, I want to do the same. Do more/make more with less.



What is this 1/4 money better solution you speak of?

And don't get me wrong, I do appreciate your wisdom and experience. Lots of heavy hitters here and I appreciate ALL of your time.

[Nathan Riddle]

This is a great way to learn about some capabilities.

Do this for all loudspeakers you are looking at.

One of the best ways it to put out mics at various positions-from the closest to the furthest listening positions.

Then turn the levels to show max spl.  This is done is different ways in different programs.

Danley-for instance-defaults to max SPL, but you can turn down individual boxes as needed.

Then compare the max SPLs and the difference in levels between the different listening positions.

This can be VERY eye opening.

Coverage maps are one thing-but they vary quite a bit in colors, db difference between colors, patch size etc.

But many line array programs are only 2D, so you can't look at a coverage map easily

Coverage is great for looking at that aspect, but mics on axis can tell quite a bit about actual SPL capabilities.

This is exactly how I compared the EAW vs Danley rigs I mention in this thread.

Downloaded EAW Resolution and Danley Direct, then compare.

Also, I usually use the continuous/average ratings. I think the peak ratings are useless because if you're trying to run things there you've lost already.

[Helge A Bentsen]

I can't say it enough, apparently.

DONT GROUND STACK DASH ARRAYS.  Just because some numb-nuts did it and the customer didn't notice (or care about) the sonic shit doesn't mean you should adopt the practice, nor should it be used as a standard of comparison.

EV has a large horn install product - a 2 way system with a concentric HF horn - that will easily outperform compact dash arrays in terms of pattern control, tonality and has similar output at 1/4 the cost.  It's seldom used in portable applications because of its size and 'unfriendly to temporary use' mounting hardware.  But for the money it blows the doors off dash arrays...

A single EAW QX594 would probably output the same SPL as a dash array of four KF740 and sound better, similar to the EV offering. I've used them with the U-bracket upside down on a stand, sounds really good but the hardware is not "tour friendly".

[David Sturzenbecher]

This is exactly how I compared the EAW vs Danley rigs I mention in this thread.

Downloaded EAW Resolution and Danley Direct, then compare.

Also, I usually use the continuous/average ratings. I think the peak ratings are useless because if you're trying to run things there you've lost already.

Make sure you turn the "phase" button on when using the Danley software. Kinda silly it defaults to off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Ivan Beaver]

Make sure you turn the "phase" button on when using the Danley software. Kinda silly it defaults to off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

That was a choice that was made during programming.

There are a number of programs that do not allow you to turn the phase on-they keep it turned off to make things look better.

In many cases the ear (especially in a room) will "sound" more like the coverage when the phase is off.

Of course if you are modeling directional subwoofer arrays, it MUST be on.

There are advantages and disadvantages to using the phase tab.  I use it both ways-depending on what I am trying to see in the model.

It is always best to compare to compare the same type model to the same type model.

[Robert Healey]

A single EAW QX594 would probably output the same SPL as a dash array of four KF740 and sound better, similar to the EV offering. I've used them with the U-bracket upside down on a stand, sounds really good but the hardware is not "tour friendly".

I was disappointed D&B discontinued the C series. One C7 per side could provide good coverage for many rooms with pattern control down to 600 Hz.

Speaking of "dash" arrays, I think that 4 D&B Q1 flown per side sounds pretty good. I think there are possibly two reasons for this - the Q1 is wider vertically than most line array modules - with the 15 degree nominal coverage, you get a 75x60 pattern out of the whole array, and D&B has a processor setting for short, curved arrays. I am not sure that I would want to walk this rig listening to pink noise in the vertical plane, however.

If I were a production company looking to move up to larger jobs, a Q1/B2 rig would be on my radar.

[Helge A Bentsen]

I was disappointed D&B discontinued the C series. One C7 per side could provide good coverage for many rooms with pattern control down to 600 Hz.

Speaking of "dash" arrays, I think that 4 D&B Q1 flown per side sounds pretty good. I think there are possibly two reasons for this - the Q1 is wider vertically than most line array modules - with the 15 degree nominal coverage, you get a 75x60 pattern out of the whole array, and D&B has a processor setting for short, curved arrays. I am not sure that I would want to walk this rig listening to pink noise in the vertical plane, however.

If I were a production company looking to move up to larger jobs, a Q1/B2 rig would be on my radar.

Q1 is one of my least favorite dash array rigs, especially groundstacked.
I'd rather use a single Q7. In fact, I have on several occations done such a switch with great results even though several providers initially belived I was mad for asking.

[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

A single EAW QX594 would probably output the same SPL as a dash array of four KF740 and sound better, similar to the EV offering. I've used them with the U-bracket upside down on a stand, sounds really good but the hardware is not "tour friendly".

I've used the QX566i boxes and they indeed sound really good.

[Mike Goodreau]

We found our own solution. We have Adamson S10 for our flown shows and occasional ground stack. Danley SH46/TH118 for lower budget ground stack only shows. They also can fly off of our Work WT150 lifts


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ProSoundWeb Community]