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Author Topic: PA Growth Strategy for a Rock Band  (Read 20081 times)

Stephen Kirby

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Re: PA Growth Strategy for a Rock Band
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2017, 08:50:15 pm »

Agree with the DSR112 or SRX812 over 2 to 4 single 18s.  I use DSRs over 4 single 18s and it gives me flexibility to bring 2 for a bar or 4 for outdoors or a large room.  While double 18s like SRX828 are more cost effective you may not always need them.  Caveat that many folks find that tipping them into a van actually easier than picking up a single 18 and loading it.  Also, having one double 18 on one side and your 12 on a stick on the other side without a sub usually won't be a problem in a bar and will sometimes reduce cancellation and sound louder.

A rock band in a bar makes a lot of midrange noise.  Having good tops like the DSRs or SRXs will still help with vocal intelligibility. 
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Bob Faulkner

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Re: PA Growth Strategy for a Rock Band
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2017, 09:17:11 pm »


Re: used, I will likely consider that. QSC has a great warranty but does it transfer with a used sale? How is JBL with warranty service?

Yes - the QSC warranty is transferable.  You would need to have a copy of the original sales receipt from the person whom you purchased the used QSC equipment from, as well, the person selling the equipment would need to provide a sales receipt.  Send all this to QSC and the warranty gets transferred to you.

I'm not sure about JBL.
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BrianHenry

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Re: PA Growth Strategy for a Rock Band
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2017, 09:18:51 pm »

Looks like its clear that subs are the next step! I was going to pull the trigger on some used KW181s locally, but now I wonder if I would be happier with 818s in the long run? I could see myself in the future with 2x 818 and 1x 828 which would be the ultimate in flexibility and more cost effective than 4x818 or 4xKW181.

If I were to end up with SRX tops down the line, will I wish I had SRX subs too or am I likely to still be happy with KW181s in that case? How much of this is taste vs actual product performance?

Is there any reason I'd be happier with 818 over 181 in the long run or is a taste issue too? At this point, my budget will allow for immediate purchase of 1 or 2 sub boxes. I really don't want to commit to a specific future top at this point.

Stephen mentions the midrange issue and that will be important to me. Especially since I have to mix from the stage and have little opportunity to audition the mix. The more clarity I can get out of the box the better.

Sorry to hem and haw, just want to make the right decisions!
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Patrick Cognitore

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Re: PA Growth Strategy for a Rock Band
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2017, 10:12:42 pm »

At this point, my budget will allow for immediate purchase of 1 or 2 sub boxes.

Sorry to hem and haw, just want to make the right decisions!
What is your budget, exactly. And what is your transport situation?

For rock I'd go with the biggest loudest subs I could afford and could transport.

You mentioned in an earlier post about the SRX828p's being huge, but they're pretty standard for a dual 18. Do you have the capability to haul a couple of dual 18's or larger horn boxes? A dual 18 would typically take up similar room in a vehicle as two single's, but you may be like me in that i could only fit two single 18's in my SUV in a specific orientation and still have room for the rest of the PA. A dual 18 would've taken over the whole vehicle.
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Rick Powell

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Re: PA Growth Strategy for a Rock Band
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2017, 10:31:54 pm »

Looks like its clear that subs are the next step! I was going to pull the trigger on some used KW181s locally, but now I wonder if I would be happier with 818s in the long run? I could see myself in the future with 2x 818 and 1x 828 which would be the ultimate in flexibility and more cost effective than 4x818 or 4xKW181.

If I were to end up with SRX tops down the line, will I wish I had SRX subs too or am I likely to still be happy with KW181s in that case? How much of this is taste vs actual product performance?

Is there any reason I'd be happier with 818 over 181 in the long run or is a taste issue too? At this point, my budget will allow for immediate purchase of 1 or 2 sub boxes. I really don't want to commit to a specific future top at this point.

Stephen mentions the midrange issue and that will be important to me. Especially since I have to mix from the stage and have little opportunity to audition the mix. The more clarity I can get out of the box the better.

Sorry to hem and haw, just want to make the right decisions!

The KW181 and SPX818sp spec out very similar in size, weight and output, and I'd expect preferences to be all over the map if you were to do a search here. Both will do a serviceable job within their capabilities. The larger 3 way tops like the KW153 and the SRX835p will generally perform well in intelligibility and general "hi-fi ness" but you may not notice enough of a difference as compared to a 12" or 15" two way box.
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BrianHenry

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Re: PA Growth Strategy for a Rock Band
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2017, 11:17:19 pm »

Patrick, we travel with a full size pickup with a cap, and due to the fact I like to use road cases for a lot of gear, there probably isn't room for a 828 at the moment and 2 1x18 might fit better. I am seriously considering getting a 5x8ish trailer though so I am trying not to let size dictate this too much. The worst part of the truck is lifting to the gate height so a trailer would be a dream come true for that reason alone. Budget is flexible and I am willing to wait to afford the right gear. I can find used KW181's for $1k ish locally if that's any indication of my budget.

It looks like the 181s can be had cheaper than the 818s and if the difference is minimal in a real life setting, that may make the decision for me between those two. But, the 828 is tempting as it offers serious bang for the buck compared to both those 1x18s. You are correct that dimensionally a pair of 1x18s is not much different than a 2x18.

Rick, I think I would certainly notice the difference, but I am a recording engineer, lol! However, since I'm on stage and not at FOH, subtleties won't be as much of a big deal to me. However, I have found that even local drunks can tell when something sounds better (and won't hesitate to tell you so). The difference is they just don't know what it is or why!
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Rob Dellwood

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Re: PA Growth Strategy for a Rock Band
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2017, 11:59:30 pm »

Patrick, we travel with a full size pickup with a cap, and due to the fact I like to use road cases for a lot of gear, there probably isn't room for a 828 at the moment and 2 1x18 might fit better. I am seriously considering getting a 5x8ish trailer though so I am trying not to let size dictate this too much. The worst part of the truck is lifting to the gate height so a trailer would be a dream come true for that reason alone. Budget is flexible and I am willing to wait to afford the right gear. I can find used KW181's for $1k ish locally if that's any indication of my budget.

It looks like the 181s can be had cheaper than the 818s and if the difference is minimal in a real life setting, that may make the decision for me between those two. But, the 828 is tempting as it offers serious bang for the buck compared to both those 1x18s. You are correct that dimensionally a pair of 1x18s is not much different than a 2x18.

Rick, I think I would certainly notice the difference, but I am a recording engineer, lol! However, since I'm on stage and not at FOH, subtleties won't be as much of a big deal to me. However, I have found that even local drunks can tell when something sounds better (and won't hesitate to tell you so). The difference is they just don't know what it is or why!

The QSC subs have a smaller profile, but pound really hard. If money is limited, go with 2 subs first. I do think you will not be happy in the long term if you stay with 12" tops. They're fine in smaller rooms, especially with subs, but not so much for bigger rooms or outdoor shows.

If you have the ability and they are available, you might want to try renting some subs and bigger tops to get an idea of the difference from your current rig.

-Rob
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Thomas Le

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Re: PA Growth Strategy for a Rock Band
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2017, 12:05:05 am »

IMO JBL wins, difference lies in the HF. SRX800P is 3 inches while QSC KW is 1.75 inches just like the K series. The SRX800P is what you consider top of the line prosumer and a step below entry level touring. The QSC KW is basically the K series in wood enclosures and a slightly more powerful amp. Not sure if it matters to you but the JBL integrated V5 tunings which is in line with their touring line. Since the SRX835 is 60 by 40, it is able to be splayed should you need more coverage.

The matching subs is no contest either, SRX818SP got louder than the QSC KW181 while getting deeper/lower.

Source: A/B'd at a music store that had them in stock.
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Ned Ward

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Re: PA Growth Strategy for a Rock Band
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2017, 12:14:12 am »

Buy what you need for most of your shows, rent for the outdoors ones. It makes absolutely no sense to own all the gear to do an occasional outdoor show that will be overkill for anything else and will sit in storage.

I'd start off with 1 QSC KW181 - by not having your kick and toms go through your K12's you'll gain a lot more headroom, and this way you can see how much one improves the sound now that you can have bass, kick and low toms through a sub instead of the top speakers. As you expand, add another KW181 if you feel you need more bass. For a lot of bars, this set up could be fine.

Once you've gotten to where you really need to get more out of your tops, then look at the KW153 and move the K12's to monitors.

What I would recommend upgrading before the KW153's would be your mixer. The MixWiz is an excellent analog mixer, but with all of the digital options out there now, you could get a lot more functionality (4+ bands of parametric eq per channel and on mains and aux sends, dynamics, etc.) in a lot smaller space. Being able to high pass and low pass your drums alone will help clean up the sound in ways you can't with your two sweepable mids. There are lots of options out there; for our band I have the Mackie DL1608 which works great for me, but check them out to find out what's right for you.

Hope this helps!
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BrianHenry

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Re: PA Growth Strategy for a Rock Band
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2017, 12:21:02 am »

Yup, fully expecting that Rob. Will do subs fist, then move on to tops when resources are there. I like the rent to try idea, but honestly, I usually set up in haste and then am on stage, so I wouldn't really get a chance to see what is up with my own ears :(

Not too familiar with the DSP on the JBL. Will look into it.

Thanks for the data point on the subs guys.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: PA Growth Strategy for a Rock Band
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2017, 12:21:02 am »


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