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[Chris Hindle]

I am really interested in the fact that your clients pay you/hire you back if the rig cuts out in the middle of a show.  The first time that happened the thing would be in the fucking dumpster.

My thoughts are close. 1 failure gets it pulled from the rack, and put on a bench.
Once the fault is recreated, fixed, and tested, it will go back in service.
Second failure, and it's history.
My clients pay me to provide sound. Not silence.
Chris

[Steve Litcher]

Hi Jeremy,

Thanks for the helpful insight and info - the VENU360 sits in a shockmount rack, along with the X32 Rack, UPS, and networking gear. It hasn't been dropped or treated to any rough-handling; we have a very small crew and we're all extra careful with the FOH rack. I suspect it may be a cold solder/assembly issue from the factory... when I talked with Harmon, the tech indicated that they have seen "more than a few" instances of this same problem.

Thanks again for the info and assistance. I'll check into the EV, and I'm going to demo the Ashly next week (local rep has them in stock and is setting-up a demo).


Scott/Chris -

Snarkiness aside, the dbx has cut out only during one show, and that was at a living room concert that we volunteer and assist with, free of charge. I realize we should've replaced the piece after the first incident; hindsight is 20/20, and arm-chair FOH-ing is always fun when on a message board.

We often get asked to help with sound at various places and many times end-up using a mixture of our gear and venue gear. The VENU360 allows us to quickly baseline the room and go from there. I wish we had the luxury of working the same, consistent places; unfortunately, that's not the case.

I'll be adding a second loudspeaker management system to the rack; the VENU360 is on its way back to Harmon for service, and if the Ashly or EV seem solid, we'll pull the trigger.

Thanks again.

[Chris Hindle]

Scott/Chris -

Snarkiness aside, the dbx has cut out only during one show, and that was at a living room concert that we volunteer and assist with, free of charge. I realize we should've replaced the piece after the first incident; hindsight is 20/20, and arm-chair FOH-ing is always fun when on a message board.

Sorry Steve, no snark intended.
From what you wrote, it sounded like it was an on-going problem.
Once, well, shit happens. Twice, you didn't fix it properly.
'Nuf said.
Chris.

[Steve Litcher]

My bad... it cut out during a performance at one show. This weekend, it cut out just before the show, and then after the show. Thankfully... but yes - it's time to do something about it.

Was hoping to solicit suggestions for a better management system, and to learn/see if anyone out there is dealing with similar challenges (multiple venues, new venues, less-than-ideal rooms, etc) and how they baseline. I'm interested in SMAART; not sure if it would be overkill or unnecessary for the types of places we deal with. Also interested in any other suggestions or ideas from the PSW community.

All good.

[Tim McCulloch]

My bad... it cut out during a performance at one show. This weekend, it cut out just before the show, and then after the show. Thankfully... but yes - it's time to do something about it.

Was hoping to solicit suggestions for a better management system, and to learn/see if anyone out there is dealing with similar challenges (multiple venues, new venues, less-than-ideal rooms, etc) and how they baseline. I'm interested in SMAART; not sure if it would be overkill or unnecessary for the types of places we deal with. Also interested in any other suggestions or ideas from the PSW community.

All good.

Hi Steve-

Yeah, my first reply did sound kind of pissy, my apologies for that.

My point was that I believe YOU have the capability to equal or better the results of this automatic process of dubious (to me at least) automatic anything and that the absence of this feature should not limit your choices of frequency dividing products.

The problem with the relay circuit in the VENU360 is documented and Harman/dbx/BSS knows what is wrong and how to fix it.  Before you make a major replacement purchase I think you should let them make the repair and then do a burn-in evaluation at home or in your shop - just run audio through it where you can hear what is happening.  You don't need the PA rig, just full range audio from input to output and a powered speaker.  You only need to hear if it cuts out.  If it does, send it back to Harman and put it on Craigslist when it gets back.

I've used and liked Ashly products for a long time; the only downside to the Protea 3.6 is the output limiting.  If you can effectively use what it has I think you'll be happy with it.

About SMAART - I'm a big believer in measurement systems which is why I am dismissive of single-ended systems like the auto EQ functions in crossovers/DSP boxes.  I took my first Smaart class in 2004 and have taken a couple more since and still learn new stuff with each class.  One of the most important things you can do as an audio technician/engineer is to get a double-fisted grip on TIME and that's really what the Smaart classes help you with (along with the user interface and learning to distinguish valid measurements from invalid measurements).

PSW has an Audio Measurement and Testing forum and I highly recommend that you do some reading there to get better grasp of what measurement can and cannot do for you.  Setting main EQ is a subjective thing (another reason why "auto", isn't) but the science is in aligning the various sub-systems - in time and freq/magnitude - to speak with a unified voice first.  Once the main PA, front fills, side hangs or off-stage speakers, delay fills & subs are all working & playing together as friends you can apply voicing EQ to the mix and know you're getting the same acoustic representation in every zone.

At any rate, from your postings in the forums I think you have a better grasp of voicing EQ than you think you do.  The concept of 'corrective' EQ at the system-wide scale is a bit of a fallacy because speaker placement & architectural features represent things that generally cannot be "EQ'd away" although you can spend hours chasing the rabbit down the hole only to find out Alice has left the building...

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

[Scott Holtzman]

My thoughts are close. 1 failure gets it pulled from the rack, and put on a bench.
Once the fault is recreated, fixed, and tested, it will go back in service.
Second failure, and it's history.
My clients pay me to provide sound. Not silence.
Chris

Snarkyiness is always in good humor.  I emotionally put myself in your spot with the processor out and frankly could not imagine being able to ever relax and trust it again.  I liked the new Venue 360 and the app.  As soon as the reports of the relay issue started coming from multiple sources I sold it on Craig's list. 


Take a look at the BSS Omni/Mini drive.  Solid as a rock.


Was hoping you would engage on the X32 Matrix discussion.  I love the feature and the flexibility.  We deploy it on many gigs that the tech has no idea what is going on under the hood.  It is totally transparent unless you are already using a Matrix as a bus compressor, then the routing gets a little trickier.

[Steve Litcher]

Tim/Scott -

Thanks for the follow-up and clarification, and all is truly good.

To clarify a few positions - when we use the AutoEQ in a new room, it really is used as a baseline. I do feel that it does a decent job of establishing a solid base, but we usually end-up adjusting it one way or another during final calibrations and sound checks. Apologies if it appeared as though we relied solely on its calculations and took them as gospel. That's not the case.

The X32 Matrix option is interesting, but I do want to have some type of safeguard/limiting available to our gear. The VENU360 isn't ideal by any means, but I can run some RMS limiting. We've spent hours at the shop measuring output voltage and getting the limiter set to where we have a little bit of cushion.

I also need delay on the mid/high output, to account for the Orbit Shifters. We typically run somewhere around 9 - 10.5ms, depending on how we've got the FOH deployed. The VENU360 makes this incredibly easy to do. I know the X32 has delay on the mains, but I'm not 100% certain how it applies to the Matrix mixes. I'll have to do some digging and experimenting.

The VENU360 also allows us to adjust gain structure in several places, which has proven beneficial with the current configuration. We typically run +1.0db on the master input and +3.4db on the master output. With that config, I can leave the PL380s on their 32dB setting and have a nearly ideal gain structure.

Thankfully, we don't have any gigs that require the VENU360 this weekend, so I'll play around with the X32 matricies and see how it works out.

Thanks again to all. I'll also update when we receive the VENU360 back from Harmon.

[Tim McCulloch]

Tim/Scott -

Thanks for the follow-up and clarification, and all is truly good.

To clarify a few positions - when we use the AutoEQ in a new room, it really is used as a baseline. I do feel that it does a decent job of establishing a solid base, but we usually end-up adjusting it one way or another during final calibrations and sound checks. Apologies if it appeared as though we relied solely on its calculations and took them as gospel. That's not the case.

The X32 Matrix option is interesting, but I do want to have some type of safeguard/limiting available to our gear. The VENU360 isn't ideal by any means, but I can run some RMS limiting. We've spent hours at the shop measuring output voltage and getting the limiter set to where we have a little bit of cushion.

I also need delay on the mid/high output, to account for the Orbit Shifters. We typically run somewhere around 9 - 10.5ms, depending on how we've got the FOH deployed. The VENU360 makes this incredibly easy to do. I know the X32 has delay on the mains, but I'm not 100% certain how it applies to the Matrix mixes. I'll have to do some digging and experimenting.

The VENU360 also allows us to adjust gain structure in several places, which has proven beneficial with the current configuration. We typically run +1.0db on the master input and +3.4db on the master output. With that config, I can leave the PL380s on their 32dB setting and have a nearly ideal gain structure.

Thankfully, we don't have any gigs that require the VENU360 this weekend, so I'll play around with the X32 matricies and see how it works out.

Thanks again to all. I'll also update when we receive the VENU360 back from Harmon.

Output delay is applied at the "virtual" output.  The output can be assigned to the physical XLR outputs, AES50 outputs or the Aux Outs can be remapped... but the delay comes right before the virtual becomes the physical.

I'm looking at the new version of X32 Edit and I selected the Routing icon in the upper right portions of the screen and Output Delay is the third tab on the popup screen.  This is also available on the mixer but I don't recall if output delays are on the Matrix Mix home screen or on the routing page.

[Scott Holtzman]

Tim/Scott -

Thanks for the follow-up and clarification, and all is truly good.

To clarify a few positions - when we use the AutoEQ in a new room, it really is used as a baseline. I do feel that it does a decent job of establishing a solid base, but we usually end-up adjusting it one way or another during final calibrations and sound checks. Apologies if it appeared as though we relied solely on its calculations and took them as gospel. That's not the case.

The X32 Matrix option is interesting, but I do want to have some type of safeguard/limiting available to our gear. The VENU360 isn't ideal by any means, but I can run some RMS limiting. We've spent hours at the shop measuring output voltage and getting the limiter set to where we have a little bit of cushion.

I also need delay on the mid/high output, to account for the Orbit Shifters. We typically run somewhere around 9 - 10.5ms, depending on how we've got the FOH deployed. The VENU360 makes this incredibly easy to do. I know the X32 has delay on the mains, but I'm not 100% certain how it applies to the Matrix mixes. I'll have to do some digging and experimenting.

The VENU360 also allows us to adjust gain structure in several places, which has proven beneficial with the current configuration. We typically run +1.0db on the master input and +3.4db on the master output. With that config, I can leave the PL380s on their 32dB setting and have a nearly ideal gain structure.

Thankfully, we don't have any gigs that require the VENU360 this weekend, so I'll play around with the X32 matricies and see how it works out.

Thanks again to all. I'll also update when we receive the VENU360 back from Harmon.

You can insert effects into Matrix's on the x32.  IIRC there is a peak stop limiter.  You have the matrix master gain, trim and makeup gain on the matrix.  Plenty of ways to make bits go left and right

[Mike Diack]

Recently, the VENU360 has been dropping all output at the most inconvenient times - just before show start, during shows, and during strike/load-out. The only way to restore the sound is to perform a series of multiple soft-resets while cycling the power. During the mysterious mute/music drop-out, the VENU360 input/output meters look normal (like all is OK), and the main display functions as normal. Everything appears to be working properly, but there is no output.

This is a known issue and an easy fix.
The power cable from the SMPSU to the main board is cooking at the main board connector. It only takes small voltage drop for the unit to go batshit crazy.
Fix : clip off the connector and hardwire it.

[ProSoundWeb Community]