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Author Topic: VENU360 issue - no sound output... time to shop for replacement?  (Read 14041 times)

Steve Litscher

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About a year or so ago, I was in the market for a digital crossover/speaker management system. I posted here, looking for guidance/suggestions. As is often the case, the thread went on a bit of a tangent into USB vs Serial vs command line and so on. Despite the tangent, the info was helpful, so thank you much.

Original "Help me pick a driverack thread"

I chose the dbx VENU360 and it worked pretty well. We've since sold off the EAW gear and are now a 100% JTR shop (Orbit Shifters, Noesis 3TX, etc). We're also using PL380 amplifiers.

Recently, the VENU360 has been dropping all output at the most inconvenient times - just before show start, during shows, and during strike/load-out. The only way to restore the sound is to perform a series of multiple soft-resets while cycling the power. During the mysterious mute/music drop-out, the VENU360 input/output meters look normal (like all is OK), and the main display functions as normal. Everything appears to be working properly, but there is no output.

I have confirmed that there isn't anything that's getting muted by the source, the mixer, or on any of the VENU360 channels. All of the VENU360 masters are unmuted and the input/output gains are exactly where they should be.

I am 100% certain it is the VENU360 that has the problem. This past weekend, during load-out, the background music that we were playing quit 5-6 times within 30 minutes. Monitors worked fine (same source/mixer, just not run through the VENU360), and when I took the L/R output from the mixer and ran it direct to an amplifier for the 3TX, there was music.

During one of the "everything goes silent" incidents with the VENU360, I happened to be standing directly next to the rack. Just before it went quiet, I heard a series of "click-click-click" sounds from inside of the VENU360. And then, no music.

I've contacted DBX and they are aware of the issue and have provided an RMA.

I'm going to be without a crossover for about 7-10 days, and it's making me think about replacing it with something else. I'm leaning toward the Ashly Protea 3.6, but...

I really like the autoEQ in the VENU360. We work with a variety of venues/locations around our area, so the autoEQ (4 position sample) provides a good baseline to work with. It does exaggerate a few things, but it's nice to have the baseline. A few sine sweeps and we're up and running.

I also really like the "on the fly" adjustment that the wifi application allows for, and I like the variety of crossover filters and the output delay options.

The problem is: I don't trust it. It's been getting progressively worse and more unstable, and this past weekend was the proverbial straw that broke the soundman's back. It's always been stored in a shockproof case and has been carefully transported/handled. When not in use, it's kept in the climate controlled warehouse. It's had a cushy life, for sure.

So... if you were in my shoes, what would you do? Our rig and fees don't warrant something like the dbx4800 or anything insanely expensive. Let's say budget is maxxed out at $1500. 3x6 configuration is about perfect; we sometimes use front fill for larger outdoor gigs.

Ashly 3.6?
Lake LM26? (out of budget, but curious if it offers better options)
Stick with the VENU360?
Smaart and a basic, analog crossover?

FOH system consists of a DL32 connected to an X32 Rack. I'd prefer to not use the matrix outs on the X32 Rack, but could if necessary. Amplifiers: 4x PL380, Mains: JTR Orbit Shifters, JTR Noesis 3TX. Run from an iPad Pro via Airport Express. Also have a PC-based laptop for lighting/back-up duties.

My perfect management system would have:
- Clean sound
- WiFi interface w/iPad application
- Ability to process 3x6 or 4x8 system
- AutoEQ or some type of RTA monitoring/configuration capability
- Some type of limiting capability (RMS, preferably)
- Ability to store presets for various locations/venues

Thanks in advance for any suggestions, experiences, or anecdotal thoughts.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2017, 02:19:38 pm by Steve Litscher »
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David Allred

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Re: VENU360 issue - no sound output... time to shop for replacement?
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2017, 02:40:10 pm »

As a 360 owner, I am very interested in the feedback from DBX (what they fixed, if it is a common problem, and if it is a solved resolution).
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: VENU360 issue - no sound output... time to shop for replacement?
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2017, 02:45:41 pm »

My take - you don't need "auto eq."   While I haven't use the VENU360 my experience with these "features" has been they're largely bullshit.

If you can't do better than this feature at this point in your career, consider lighting... seriously.

Why?  Because you shouldn't be changing anything having to do with *system* alignment or EQ for the various pass bands.  Changing EQ to better interface the system to the room is another matter, but the box is *dumb* in that it cannot account for what is going on at any position other that where the mic is placed and the box cannot discern the difference between a reflection/cancellation and direct sound.

I'm sure this and some other dubious features sell units for dbx/Harman, but they're still bullshit.
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Alfredo Prada

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Re: VENU360 issue - no sound output... time to shop for replacement?
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2017, 03:21:02 pm »

About a year or so ago, I was in the market for a digital crossover/speaker management system. I posted here, looking for guidance/suggestions. As is often the case, the thread went on a bit of a tangent into USB vs Serial vs command line and so on. Despite the tangent, the info was helpful, so thank you much.

Original "Help me pick a driverack thread"

I chose the dbx VENU360 and it worked pretty well. We've since sold off the EAW gear and are now a 100% JTR shop (Orbit Shifters, Noesis 3TX, etc). We're also using PL380 amplifiers.

Recently, the VENU360 has been dropping all output at the most inconvenient times - just before show start, during shows, and during strike/load-out. The only way to restore the sound is to perform a series of multiple soft-resets while cycling the power. During the mysterious mute/music drop-out, the VENU360 input/output meters look normal (like all is OK), and the main display functions as normal. Everything appears to be working properly, but there is no output.

I have confirmed that there isn't anything that's getting muted by the source, the mixer, or on any of the VENU360 channels. All of the VENU360 masters are unmuted and the input/output gains are exactly where they should be.

I am 100% certain it is the VENU360 that has the problem. This past weekend, during load-out, the background music that we were playing quit 5-6 times within 30 minutes. Monitors worked fine (same source/mixer, just not run through the VENU360), and when I took the L/R output from the mixer and ran it direct to an amplifier for the 3TX, there was music.

During one of the "everything goes silent" incidents with the VENU360, I happened to be standing directly next to the rack. Just before it went quiet, I heard a series of "click-click-click" sounds from inside of the VENU360. And then, no music.

I've contacted DBX and they are aware of the issue and have provided an RMA.

I'm going to be without a crossover for about 7-10 days, and it's making me think about replacing it with something else. I'm leaning toward the Ashly Protea 3.6, but...

I really like the autoEQ in the VENU360. We work with a variety of venues/locations around our area, so the autoEQ (4 position sample) provides a good baseline to work with. It does exaggerate a few things, but it's nice to have the baseline. A few sine sweeps and we're up and running.

I also really like the "on the fly" adjustment that the wifi application allows for, and I like the variety of crossover filters and the output delay options.

The problem is: I don't trust it. It's been getting progressively worse and more unstable, and this past weekend was the proverbial straw that broke the soundman's back. It's always been stored in a shockproof case and has been carefully transported/handled. When not in use, it's kept in the climate controlled warehouse. It's had a cushy life, for sure.

So... if you were in my shoes, what would you do? Our rig and fees don't warrant something like the dbx4800 or anything insanely expensive. Let's say budget is maxxed out at $1500. 3x6 configuration is about perfect; we sometimes use front fill for larger outdoor gigs.

Ashly 3.6?
Lake LM26? (out of budget, but curious if it offers better options)
Stick with the VENU360?
Smaart and a basic, analog crossover?

FOH system consists of a DL32 connected to an X32 Rack. I'd prefer to not use the matrix outs on the X32 Rack, but could if necessary. Amplifiers: 4x PL380, Mains: JTR Orbit Shifters, JTR Noesis 3TX. Run from an iPad Pro via Airport Express. Also have a PC-based laptop for lighting/back-up duties.

My perfect management system would have:
- Clean sound
- WiFi interface w/iPad application
- Ability to process 3x6 or 4x8 system
- AutoEQ or some type of RTA monitoring/configuration capability
- Some type of limiting capability (RMS, preferably)
- Ability to store presets for various locations/venues

Thanks in advance for any suggestions, experiences, or anecdotal thoughts.

I would suggest keeping it after it is repaired, I have one for about a year now and have not had any issues. Please keep us informed .

thanks
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Steve Litscher

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Re: VENU360 issue - no sound output... time to shop for replacement?
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2017, 03:23:10 pm »

Tim -

You're partially correct - we don't use the AutoEQ to influence the system configuration, and we don't use it more than once at any particular venue.

The problem/challenge is that we work with around two dozen different venues in our area, and the venues are all vastly different in terms of layout, capacity, number of floors/levels, etc. We also get the occasional request to work at a new venue, so having the AutoEQ/RTA helps establish a baseline, and we go from there.

Do we absolutely need it? No. Is it nice to have? Yes.

I had mentioned this above; guessing it got overlooked in my tome of a post.

I *wish* we had the luxury of providing sound at the same 3-4 venues. If that were the case, the AutoEQ and wireless requests wouldn't be necessary. Unfortunately, we work in a dozen or so local towns/cities and in nearly two dozen different venues + outdoor events.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2017, 03:25:33 pm by Steve Litscher »
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Allen Smith

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Re: VENU360 issue - no sound output... time to shop for replacement?
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2017, 03:24:21 pm »

Have you tried the auto eq function?   Technology marches on and this is not the pink noise of the seventies.  I was skeptical until I realized that this unit uses similar technology to that of my high end home receiver which does amazing things in a concrete basement theater with an 11.2 speaker configuration.

I use one of the driverack units and I can assure you that it does a better job of scientifically finding and neutralizing the room anomalies than I ever did and with 50 year old ears forget it.

Imho telling someone they should get out of the sound business because they use technology you choose not to is out of line.  Conversely, someone could suggest that those who don't embrace technology that improves their offering that they should get into the light business.  I didn't say that, but it's just as rediculous.

My take - you don't need "auto eq."   While I haven't use the VENU360 my experience with these "features" has been they're largely bullshit.

If you can't do better than this feature at this point in your career, consider lighting... seriously.

Why?  Because you shouldn't be changing anything having to do with *system* alignment or EQ for the various pass bands.  Changing EQ to better interface the system to the room is another matter, but the box is *dumb* in that it cannot account for what is going on at any position other that where the mic is placed and the box cannot discern the difference between a reflection/cancellation and direct sound.

I'm sure this and some other dubious features sell units for dbx/Harman, but they're still bullshit.
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Steve Litscher

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Re: VENU360 issue - no sound output... time to shop for replacement?
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2017, 03:26:26 pm »

Have you tried the auto eq function?   Technology marches on and this is not the pink noise of the seventies.  I was skeptical until I realized that this unit uses similar technology to that of my high end home receiver which does amazing things in a concrete basement theater with an 11.2 speaker configuration.

I use one of the driverack units and I can assure you that it does a better job of scientifically finding and neutralizing the room anomalies than I ever did and with 50 year old ears forget it.

Imho telling someone they should get out of the sound business because they use technology you choose not to is out of line.  Conversely, someone could suggest that those who don't embrace technology that improves their offering that they should get into the light business.  I didn't say that, but it's just as rediculous.

+1

Thank you for actually reading the post, actually using the product, and for chiming in.

Jeremy Young

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Re: VENU360 issue - no sound output... time to shop for replacement?
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2017, 09:02:36 pm »

About a year or so ago, I was in the market for a digital crossover/speaker management system. I posted here, looking for guidance/suggestions. As is often the case, the thread went on a bit of a tangent into USB vs Serial vs command line and so on. Despite the tangent, the info was helpful, so thank you much.

Original "Help me pick a driverack thread"

I chose the dbx VENU360 and it worked pretty well. We've since sold off the EAW gear and are now a 100% JTR shop (Orbit Shifters, Noesis 3TX, etc). We're also using PL380 amplifiers.

Recently, the VENU360 has been dropping all output at the most inconvenient times - just before show start, during shows, and during strike/load-out. The only way to restore the sound is to perform a series of multiple soft-resets while cycling the power. During the mysterious mute/music drop-out, the VENU360 input/output meters look normal (like all is OK), and the main display functions as normal. Everything appears to be working properly, but there is no output.

I have confirmed that there isn't anything that's getting muted by the source, the mixer, or on any of the VENU360 channels. All of the VENU360 masters are unmuted and the input/output gains are exactly where they should be.

I am 100% certain it is the VENU360 that has the problem. This past weekend, during load-out, the background music that we were playing quit 5-6 times within 30 minutes. Monitors worked fine (same source/mixer, just not run through the VENU360), and when I took the L/R output from the mixer and ran it direct to an amplifier for the 3TX, there was music.

During one of the "everything goes silent" incidents with the VENU360, I happened to be standing directly next to the rack. Just before it went quiet, I heard a series of "click-click-click" sounds from inside of the VENU360. And then, no music.

I've contacted DBX and they are aware of the issue and have provided an RMA.

I'm going to be without a crossover for about 7-10 days, and it's making me think about replacing it with something else. I'm leaning toward the Ashly Protea 3.6, but...

I really like the autoEQ in the VENU360. We work with a variety of venues/locations around our area, so the autoEQ (4 position sample) provides a good baseline to work with. It does exaggerate a few things, but it's nice to have the baseline. A few sine sweeps and we're up and running.

I also really like the "on the fly" adjustment that the wifi application allows for, and I like the variety of crossover filters and the output delay options.

The problem is: I don't trust it. It's been getting progressively worse and more unstable, and this past weekend was the proverbial straw that broke the soundman's back. It's always been stored in a shockproof case and has been carefully transported/handled. When not in use, it's kept in the climate controlled warehouse. It's had a cushy life, for sure.

So... if you were in my shoes, what would you do? Our rig and fees don't warrant something like the dbx4800 or anything insanely expensive. Let's say budget is maxxed out at $1500. 3x6 configuration is about perfect; we sometimes use front fill for larger outdoor gigs.

Ashly 3.6?
Lake LM26? (out of budget, but curious if it offers better options)
Stick with the VENU360?
Smaart and a basic, analog crossover?

FOH system consists of a DL32 connected to an X32 Rack. I'd prefer to not use the matrix outs on the X32 Rack, but could if necessary. Amplifiers: 4x PL380, Mains: JTR Orbit Shifters, JTR Noesis 3TX. Run from an iPad Pro via Airport Express. Also have a PC-based laptop for lighting/back-up duties.

My perfect management system would have:
- Clean sound
- WiFi interface w/iPad application
- Ability to process 3x6 or 4x8 system
- AutoEQ or some type of RTA monitoring/configuration capability
- Some type of limiting capability (RMS, preferably)
- Ability to store presets for various locations/venues

Thanks in advance for any suggestions, experiences, or anecdotal thoughts.

Hey Steve, I don't own (and haven't used) your particular DSP but I'd suspect it uses relays to disconnect the analog outputs from the DSP when it powers up and powers down. Pretty common these days to avoid any power-on noises/pops.  The clicking you described sounds to me like the relays, and everything you describe sounds like a physical loss of signal not a failure of the DSP etc.  Speaking generally here, I no longer work in a factory authorized Harman Warranty repair shop, but I did once before the venu360 was in their lineup.

If it were on my bench, I'd be checking for broken solder connections on any of the circuits involved with the relays.  They're probably NO/PC (normally open, power closed) so that they only pass signal when energized.  Things like this usually rear their heads in seemingly random times, when the PCB is warming up or cooling off, and the expansion/contraction of the components (circuit board & chassis moving at different rates) creates a "perfect storm" that breaks the current holding the relay closed.


DSP's are generally in the amp rack, and the heat from the amps would be enough to make a "poor" solder connection into a "lack of" solder connection intermittently.  With electronics in this price bracket, the repair depot will be swapping parts at the circuit-board level, not the component level.  Hopefully it's a separate PCB for the inputs/outputs, but might be worth saving all your presets to your computer before sending it away for repair in case they swap out the board with the memory.

Ever drop your amp rack?  Not accusing, but they're heavy...I've been there. DSP's (and other rack gear) are rarely secured at both front and back rails so a small bounce can really stress the insides.  I've seen compressors/gates and such take short falls and suffer immensely.  You'd be surprised how little of a drop it takes to flex the front plate on a rack unit enough to break a PCB or at least one of the thru-hole connections, especially one with pots that are fastened through the front plate.

If you do decide to scrap the DBX unit, I've been happy with my EV DC-one for what it's worth.  Only 2in-6out, but I suppose you could run your centre fills off your mixer directly when needed.  It doesn't have a wheel on the front, if you're used to using the DBX stuff, but I find the buttons get me quick access to any feature I need, and once the limiters are set the LED indicators show you how far from the limiter threshold you are, which is a handy thing to see at a glance.  No iPad software, PC only. No auto-anything, just filters and dynamics. I use a dual-channel FFT for that sort of thing.  Check out the AudioTools app from Studio Six Digital.  I use it on my iPad with a cheap 2-channel USB preamp to compare the signal coming from the mixer with the signal entering the measurement mic and then I make changes on the DSP as I see fit.  The DC-one is too deep to fit in an effects rack, but lines up nicely with the depth of most high-power amps which makes patching in the back of the rack much easier.  YMMV. 


Best of luck for a speedy repair!  No one likes to have essential equipment out of commission.
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Len Zenith Jr

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Re: VENU360 issue - no sound output... time to shop for replacement?
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2017, 10:09:44 pm »

Save your settings on PC. Do a hard factory reset, then reinstall latest firmware and reload your settings. Had the same issue and the above solved my issue.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: VENU360 issue - no sound output... time to shop for replacement?
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2017, 02:47:01 am »

I'd prefer to not use the matrix outs on the X32 Rack


Why do you prefer not to use the simplest option?  Is it a knowledge thing or lack of outputs? 


I am really interested in the fact that your clients pay you/hire you back if the rig cuts out in the middle of a show.  The first time that happened the thing would be in the fucking dumpster.


I can't afford to lose a client. 


Now one of the guys would probably fish it out of the dumpster, send it back and sell it on eBay but the point is it would never go out again.



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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Re: VENU360 issue - no sound output... time to shop for replacement?
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2017, 02:47:01 am »


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