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Author Topic: Help With Identifying This Type Of Stage Lighting?  (Read 8260 times)

TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: Help With Identifying This Type Of Stage Lighting?
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2017, 10:19:17 am »

My friend is a university lecturer in AV stuff, and has played loads of pro gigs as a stage drummer in rock bands too. He's just let me know that projectors will be blown out almost completely by any stage lighting. I'm not sure which way to go now..! Does this meet with your experience?
Projectors are used with stage lighting all the time.  Will a 1000 lumen projector lighting up 1000 square feet of surface stand up to a ton of direct stage light?  No, but a 5000 lumen projector on a 6' x 10' screen out of the direct path of stage light will definitely be visible and look reasonable.  Will it have the same effect as your original video? Possibly not, but it depends on what you want to do.
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Jeff Lelko

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Re: Help With Identifying This Type Of Stage Lighting?
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2017, 08:09:08 pm »

My friend is a university lecturer in AV stuff, and has played loads of pro gigs as a stage drummer in rock bands too. He's just let me know that projectors will be blown out almost completely by any stage lighting. I'm not sure which way to go now..! Does this meet with your experience?

Yes and no.  If the projector and display surface (screen or otherwise) are sized and placed correctly in accordance with the other aspects of the show, yes, it'll work just fine and it's done all the time.  Will a $295 projector from Office Depot hold a candle to a properly lit stage?  No.  I actually had this happen on a show of mine not too long ago - the band wanted to use their office projector to display graphics behind the drummer.  Even masking as much light as I could away from the screen you'd never even know there was a projector back there... There's a good reason why most of the projectors you see in live entertainment cost decent money.     
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Stuart Murphy

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Re: Help With Identifying This Type Of Stage Lighting?
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2017, 08:24:27 am »

Projectors are used with stage lighting all the time.  Will a 1000 lumen projector lighting up 1000 square feet of surface stand up to a ton of direct stage light?  No, but a 5000 lumen projector on a 6' x 10' screen out of the direct path of stage light will definitely be visible and look reasonable.  Will it have the same effect as your original video? Possibly not, but it depends on what you want to do.

Thanks TJ. Anecdotal advice is always so helpful. Generally speaking, is the measure of LUMENS the only real thing I should look for to source on that will kick butt in the presence of stage lights? Or is that only a minor spec to be aware of? I noticed today a bunch of 4000 12,000 lumen Panasonic projectors that looked like they might work.. It said they could go up to 8 metres width at high res.
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: Help With Identifying This Type Of Stage Lighting?
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2017, 09:03:05 am »

Thanks TJ. Anecdotal advice is always so helpful. Generally speaking, is the measure of LUMENS the only real thing I should look for to source on that will kick butt in the presence of stage lights? Or is that only a minor spec to be aware of? I noticed today a bunch of 4000 12,000 lumen Panasonic projectors that looked like they might work.. It said they could go up to 8 metres width at high res.
Stuart, I saw your other video wall idea, and it is interesting, but hard to execute.  You need a fairly powerful media server and a lot of setup time, truck space, and general hassle.  In a fixed install it might work, but it's going to be a challenge to setup and tear down every show.

I have done myself or have been a part of a number of shows with projectors making up part or all of the backdrop. 
Here are some general thoughts typed quickly:

- Rear projection is much preferable to front projection, as it's less affected by light from the front of the screen, and you can stand in front of the screen without creating a shadow.
- Your friend is right in general principle - even a high output projector is no match for a direct stage light, but if you can make your lighting angles work so you're not illuminating your projected background with front stage light, it works reasonably well.
- Due to the above points, small rooms are going to be tough due to space and angle problems.
- Lumens/projected area is what matters.  You mentioned 5 meters x 3 meters or 15 sq meters, which for us yanks is 150 sq feet.  600  lumens/sq meter or 60 lumens/sq ft is the minimum amount of light that would be even remotely acceptable, so you need at least 9,000 projected lumens, and your 12,000 lumen projector would be OK, but not eye-popping.  If you downsized your screen to 4 meters x 2.5 meters you now have 10 sq meters of projected area, and your 12,000 lumen projector will start looking pretty good.
- Smaller screens are easier to handle with lighting angles too - non-optimal stage lighting angles will manifest problems at the bottom of your backdrop first, so getting a smaller screen up off the ground is a lot easier than a larger screen that goes all the way to the floor.

Budget and circumstances will dictate your options.  As Lance said, LED video wall segments are the best solution, but at about $3000/sq meter for even the cheap stuff not counting structure and media server, that's an expensive proposition.  One or two nice projectors will give you a great looking result assuming lighting and projection angles work out.  A bunch of cheap consumer TVs may be the lowest cost option, but you'll pay for it with logistical challenges, large borders between your screen tiles, and reliability issues.

Winning the lottery would help a lot.
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Stuart Murphy

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Re: Help With Identifying This Type Of Stage Lighting?
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2017, 09:46:10 am »

Stuart, I saw your other video wall idea, and it is interesting, but hard to execute.  You need a fairly powerful media server and a lot of setup time, truck space, and general hassle.  In a fixed install it might work, but it's going to be a challenge to setup and tear down every show.

I have done myself or have been a part of a number of shows with projectors making up part or all of the backdrop. 
Here are some general thoughts typed quickly:

- Rear projection is much preferable to front projection, as it's less affected by light from the front of the screen, and you can stand in front of the screen without creating a shadow.
- Your friend is right in general principle - even a high output projector is no match for a direct stage light, but if you can make your lighting angles work so you're not illuminating your projected background with front stage light, it works reasonably well.
- Due to the above points, small rooms are going to be tough due to space and angle problems.
- Lumens/projected area is what matters.  You mentioned 5 meters x 3 meters or 15 sq meters, which for us yanks is 150 sq feet.  600  lumens/sq meter or 60 lumens/sq ft is the minimum amount of light that would be even remotely acceptable, so you need at least 9,000 projected lumens, and your 12,000 lumen projector would be OK, but not eye-popping.  If you downsized your screen to 4 meters x 2.5 meters you now have 10 sq meters of projected area, and your 12,000 lumen projector will start looking pretty good.
- Smaller screens are easier to handle with lighting angles too - non-optimal stage lighting angles will manifest problems at the bottom of your backdrop first, so getting a smaller screen up off the ground is a lot easier than a larger screen that goes all the way to the floor.

Budget and circumstances will dictate your options.  As Lance said, LED video wall segments are the best solution, but at about $3000/sq meter for even the cheap stuff not counting structure and media server, that's an expensive proposition.  One or two nice projectors will give you a great looking result assuming lighting and projection angles work out.  A bunch of cheap consumer TVs may be the lowest cost option, but you'll pay for it with logistical challenges, large borders between your screen tiles, and reliability issues.

Winning the lottery would help a lot.

Such a useful response there TJ, I'll try to digest it all and try to move ahead somehow. I doubt I'd be able to produce all the 2hours of video and After Effects content for 13 different screens myself anyway, let alone figure out how to sync and stream it all. You mentioned 2 projectors.. do you mean I should run 2 say 8000 lumen projectors side by side.. would that help/is it even possible or advised? If so, what central program would I use that ties all the motorised lighting and projector stuff together in sync? I hope to hit the Macbook GO button and let the synced show run for the 2 hrs stage time.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 09:54:10 am by Stuart Murphy »
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: Help With Identifying This Type Of Stage Lighting?
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2017, 10:15:43 am »

Such a useful response there TJ, I'll try to digest it all and try to move ahead somehow. I doubt I'd be able to produce all the 2hours of video and After Effects content for 13 different screens myself anyway, let alone figure out how to sync and stream it all. You mentioned 2 projectors.. do you mean I should run 2 say 8000 lumen projectors side by side.. would that help/is it even possible or advised? If so, what central program would I use that ties all the motorised lighting and projector stuff together in sync? I hope to hit the Macbook GO button and let the synced show run for the 2 hrs stage time.
The easiest to execute is one projector with one screen, as that's just a basic single video.  Programs like Pro Presenter can do up to 3 screens with relatively little complexity, as long as they are separate screens.  Fancier setups can blend projectors together, but this is expensive and difficult.

After hearing more about what you are trying to do and your level of experience, I feel confident that a single projector solution is your best bet for a video backdrop.  There are still things to learn and work out, and there's definitely cost associated, but I think you would find it a lot easier to be successful that way, relative to multiple TVs.

The other alternative is to skip the video and look into lights that can be pixel mapped. 

https://www.chauvetdj.com/products/core-3x3/

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Stuart Murphy

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Re: Help With Identifying This Type Of Stage Lighting?
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2017, 06:54:41 pm »

The easiest to execute is one projector with one screen, as that's just a basic single video.  Programs like Pro Presenter can do up to 3 screens with relatively little complexity, as long as they are separate screens.  Fancier setups can blend projectors together, but this is expensive and difficult.

After hearing more about what you are trying to do and your level of experience, I feel confident that a single projector solution is your best bet for a video backdrop.  There are still things to learn and work out, and there's definitely cost associated, but I think you would find it a lot easier to be successful that way, relative to multiple TVs.

The other alternative is to skip the video and look into lights that can be pixel mapped. 

https://www.chauvetdj.com/products/core-3x3/

Thanks DJ. They're great suggestions. To clarify, you're right in that I'm not a lighting tech regarding my experience levels, but I've taken on very big challenges and stage projects in the past that were supposed to be beyond me also, but they all worked out incredibly well. I'm diligent, and I'm sure I can sort this out. But it's so much more evolutionary for me with my ideas when guys like you throw in educated options. It's extremely well appreciated, and takes me much further, thanks.

I'll see if I can work in those Chauvet pixel mapped lights. They may be more useful to me than motorised heads.
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Jeff Lelko

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Re: Help With Identifying This Type Of Stage Lighting?
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2017, 07:13:55 pm »

I'll see if I can work in those Chauvet pixel mapped lights. They may be more useful to me than motorised heads.

Oh absolutely.  I think moving heads are the wrong tool for this job.  In addition to the 3x3 grid, you might want to consider something like the Chauvet EPIX or the Blizzard Pixellicious.  They're a little different than the COB grids but you get more of a true pixel mapping display with these.  They're also very reasonably priced in my opinion and are sold in a few different variants. 
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Stuart Murphy

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Re: Help With Identifying This Type Of Stage Lighting?
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2017, 10:17:54 pm »

Oh absolutely.  I think moving heads are the wrong tool for this job.  In addition to the 3x3 grid, you might want to consider something like the Chauvet EPIX or the Blizzard Pixellicious.  They're a little different than the COB grids but you get more of a true pixel mapping display with these.  They're also very reasonably priced in my opinion and are sold in a few different variants.

Thanks Jeff. They do both look good. I need to get my head around how to work that dot pixel look into this somewhat glamorous Shania thing, design/looks-wise. They seem to be very useful/clever fixtures!
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Terry Martin

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Re: Help With Identifying This Type Of Stage Lighting?
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2017, 02:51:18 pm »

I'd like to chat with this guy to share / exchange some lighting info - is that possible for you to arrange?

easyrider1340 @ gmail

Thanks
Terry
Here's a self build, but very small stage sign that my friend built. It's just christmas lights built in to a wood frame. He has it DMX'd and midi to the light show. This guy rolls in and sets up this monster light show and huge PA at every gig:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3fdNzXzDPc



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Help With Identifying This Type Of Stage Lighting?
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2017, 02:51:18 pm »


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