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Author Topic: Trying to lose some weight.  (Read 11971 times)

Scott Holtzman

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Re: Trying to loose some weight.
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2017, 12:12:50 am »


I just turned 22


Therein lies the problem.


You have never even heard the phrase before hence you thought we were speaking of your physical paycheck instead of trying to tell you in a nice way you were speaking out of turn.


More than likely you are used to forums that contain your peers (30 year old DJ's) and not populated with touring audio engineers, speaker designers,  'C' level executives of top audio firms et al.


The amazing thing is all these folks want to do is share with you and help you grow your career/small business/house of worship or whatever need brought you here.


Performance impressions carry little weight, data is valued but suspect, properly measured data, presented well and analyzed is respected. 


So ask questions, seek counsel, tell a joke in the basement.  Don't spout subjection opinions based on your limited expereince.


My favorite old timer phrase is "take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth".  You can't hear a damn thing while you are talking.







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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Jake R. Trutt

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Re: Trying to loose some weight.
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2017, 02:40:49 am »

My problem is that I do not know the questions to ask until I have said the information. I do know about measured responses and do offer them, when available, but I have no equipment to measure these speakers. My access is limited to personal experience and it is subjective but I have yet to see another person offer an objective statement in this thread. The RCF speaker in question is still unproven and I have seen no data regarding it, yet many users have pushed for it over the others. I do not believe anyone has done a measured response test of the speakers in question and so how can one give a provable statement regarding which one is superior? In short: I understand that concept and if I had measured response, I would have given them. I have done so before.

I do enjoy that... this place is quite friendly and helpful... but the first thing you learn in communications or English is that there must be a conversation first. That adage of "take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth" is not what any teacher/professor will ever tell you. No one in academia will ever say that. It's not like this is a class on audio though, I believe I know enough to take the correction accordingly and learn based upon that. If you are presenting a disagreement with that, please direct me to a course I can take on audio engineering that will broaden my understandings in this area (I have taken a few production classes but none of them were related to live audio). If my understanding is wrong, I must first know that it is wrong. So I must pose a statement and await validity of that statement. From what I've learned, just browsing these forums, there are better sound engineers here than the ones I have available in person. They have already proven multiple audio engineers that I know wrong and disproved multiple understandings that they gave me. So instead of messaging them directly about my knowledge, I offer my opinion and I am corrected, how a teacher would correct a student. In turn, this presents more quandaries. If I never posed the statement, how would I have known to question my knowledge? Likewise, In previous threads I have made valuable points and additions but they were missing other aspects of sound that I was unaware of and others expanded my knowledge. I'm not entirely wrong I'm just missing certain factors. In essence: humility and questions allow for growth.

I'm nowhere near the same level as an equal in audio, although I do have knowledge in other fields that they might not have. English and politics are my main strengths. Math tends to give me trouble because I lack a broadened view and I miss certain variables. The math itself is, essentially, easy but recognition of all the variables is where I have difficulty. Since sound is more succinctly written in math, I have to make statements in English and await potential new variables that I fail to realize. Which is why John Rutirasiri's statement makes sense. I need to do my math again. If you noticed, Ivan said "throw" was the wrong term and my assumption was wrong, but not entirely. It is environment dependent, as John Ferreira said:

The room with its boundaries can very much affect amplitude (volume) and phase (wave alignment, cancelation) and so behaving like filters.

Sometimes looking at an audio measurement, you may be surprised by what you think you hear, versus the actual measurement.


The environments I have heard the speakers and the interpretation of what I hear vs. the actual measurement are the likely reason for my assumption and I need the correct environment to properly test it. I believe I have shown respect and accepted the criticism. Maybe there is a miscommunication with my repetitive questioning but I had no ill-intentions. I simply have a longer learning curve in math. If they did not want to answer, that is fine as well.

Edit: Irregardless of all that, the user in question insulted me not once but twice. I cited his other ad hominem. I don't see the reasoning in why he didn't refute what I said and chose to attack me directly. It's petty and/or lazy. At least you put up a significant argument. And whether what he said implied what you explained or not doesn't matter. Why do you think all my comments are lengthy? Not everyone understands the context... You have to be specific with your verbiage. You are correct though, almost every other forum I've been on is full of cocky and ignorant DJ's who care more about the money they make than the craft.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2017, 06:06:31 am by ianzchurchill »
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Trying to loose some weight.
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2017, 08:56:07 am »


I probably shouldn't speak on 'throw' but hey, it's a learning experience.
The "proper"use of the term "throw" is basically a ratio of the on axis sound to the off axis sound.

A "long throw" typically means a narrow pattern horn-so the ratio of the long distance to the short distance SPL is less than with a wider pattern horn.

It can also simply mean how loud something is at a distance.  Higher sensitivity and power capacity enter into this.

It can also mean (the most important as far as I am concerned) is how well the signal "holds together" at a distance.

With multiple sources, the sound just tends to "fall apart" and is greatly affected by the wind.

A single source tends to hold together much better-because there is less cancellation going on.

This is a much harder subject and is very open to opinion.

STIpa is probably the best way to measure this-along with basic SPL.

I had an interesting "observation" a little while ago at a festival in which the gated around the whole downtown area for a festival.

There were 22 stages altogether-but about 6 or so "larger stages" outdoors.

You could walk down all the alleys/streets etc. On some stages you could hear that there was "music" coming from the stage- when you around a couple of corners from the stage.  But you could not tell what song was being played.

On one stage, you could easily go around several corners and clearly hear the music "hold together" after being bounced around off of the buildings.  Yes the highs were gone- but it was "still all there" and could be enjoyed.

The other stages were a blur.

It wasn't the SPL, but rather the clarity of how well it held together that was interesting to me.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

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Tim Weaver

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Re: Trying to loose some weight.
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2017, 10:21:35 am »

but regardless of that assumption I can tell you that from experience the ZXA5 will be louder than the SRX815P/SRX835P. And it will provide more bass, the kind that the OP desires for using them by themselves. The other option, the RCF's, are something that I have not heard and did not compare directly because I lack personal experience with them. I only commented on application differences between the ZXA5 and SRX815P.

I honestly haven't used the SRX8xx stuff enough to form a real opinion on it yet. When I was touring, those oxes had just hit the market. I used them a few times, but not enough to really get a feel for them.

The ZXa5's I've used. Almost always as a monitor.

I suspect that the ZXa5 "sounds" louder because it is distorting. They've been measured by people here that know what they are doing and the measurements show an early onset of distortion. Distortion makes you think its louder than it really is.

 It probably does offer a little more bass response, but that's the design of the cabinet. They were designed for the speaker on a stick market at a time when people didn't use subs for these gigs as much as they do now.

The SRX8xx cabinets seem to be designed to be used with the companion sub and as such, does not NEED to have extended bass response. A lack of sub-100hz will give you a better integration with the sub. You won't have to use extra eq or steeper slopes.



I would suggest you read, read, read these forums. When you have a question, search it and read the answers. Spend a few years educating yourself here. It's free, but the education is worth millions.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Trying to loose some weight.
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2017, 01:51:48 pm »



I would suggest you read, read, read these forums. When you have a question, search it and read the answers. Spend a few years educating yourself here. It's free, but the education is worth millions.
+1000

Many people do not realize the value this forum presents in all aspects of the sound industry.

It is FREE-all you have to do is to take the time to learn.

There are experts from all sections of the industry, and TONS of users with real world experience (good and bad) that are willing to share their knowledge and experience.

If one pays attention, you can cut many years out of the learning curve.

And you get free "classes" on small subjects just for the asking.

I really wish this had existed when I was "cutting my teeth" decades ago.

It was all by trial and error-a lot of error.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
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PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Tim McCulloch

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Re: Trying to loose some weight.
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2017, 02:10:43 pm »

+1000

Many people do not realize the value this forum presents in all aspects of the sound industry.

It is FREE-all you have to do is to take the time to learn.

There are experts from all sections of the industry, and TONS of users with real world experience (good and bad) that are willing to share their knowledge and experience.

If one pays attention, you can cut many years out of the learning curve.

And you get free "classes" on small subjects just for the asking.

I really wish this had existed when I was "cutting my teeth" decades ago.

It was all by trial and error-a lot of error.

Damn kids are still on our lawn, Ivan?  /sarc

Yeah, I clutched tightly the trade publications that discussed real world live audio stuff back in the Previous Century and tried to not pay a lot of tuition at Ye Olde Skool of Harde Knox.  I still spent a lot of $$ on my education...

We've had a couple of "students" here that have done fairly well for themselves after they realized that they didn't know everything and that much of what they *knew* wasn't actual facts or sometimes correct physics.  it takes a little time for the ego to deflate.

I must say that I'm well on my way to knowing about 25% of what I thought I knew 35 years ago... ;)
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

jesseweiss

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Re: Trying to loose some weight.
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2017, 02:38:05 pm »

Damn kids are still on our lawn, Ivan?  /sarc

Yeah, I clutched tightly the trade publications that discussed real world live audio stuff back in the Previous Century and tried to not pay a lot of tuition at Ye Olde Skool of Harde Knox.  I still spent a lot of $$ on my education...

We've had a couple of "students" here that have done fairly well for themselves after they realized that they didn't know everything and that much of what they *knew* wasn't actual facts or sometimes correct physics.  it takes a little time for the ego to deflate.

I must say that I'm well on my way to knowing about 25% of what I thought I knew 35 years ago... ;)

I've had my own experience with members being "curt" with me as I started to ask questions and learn (although I'm 48 so don't take it so personally), but I have still gained good info and help from the forum.  It should be noted that nobody corrected the OP's spelling of "lose", because THAT would be petty and not in any way relevant to the conversation about sound.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Trying to loose some weight.
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2017, 03:20:33 pm »

I've had my own experience with members being "curt" with me as I started to ask questions and learn (although I'm 48 so don't take it so personally), but I have still gained good info and help from the forum.  It should be noted that nobody corrected the OP's spelling of "lose", because THAT would be petty and not in any way relevant to the conversation about sound.

We'll deal the with the factual and physics stuff first.  Then the spelling/grammar police will be notified.
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

jesseweiss

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Re: Trying to loose some weight.
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2017, 03:32:46 pm »

We'll deal the with the factual and physics stuff first.  Then the spelling/grammar police will be notified.

I recently read an interesting article about "grammar police" types and how they ignore the dynamic nature of language, the fact that grammar and usages change over time, and therefore are really holding nostalgically to language as fixed needlessly.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Trying to loose some weight.
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2017, 04:12:30 pm »

I recently read an interesting article about "grammar police" types and how they ignore the dynamic nature of language, the fact that grammar and usages change over time, and therefore are really holding nostalgically to language as fixed needlessly.

I disagree.  Word definitions and standards of grammar and composition exist to maintain consistency of meaning and intent.  You won't find laws written in "txt spk".  You won't find treaties so written.  You won't find regulations in Pig Latin.

That language evolves and changes is a fact, but that change must be gradual or you will have documents, laws, treaties, wills, contracts and other communications that will not be understood in 2 generations.

I'm appalled at how people in their 20s, 30s, even older sometimes, cannot express themselves clearly in written or spoken words.
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Trying to loose some weight.
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2017, 04:12:30 pm »


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