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[Ryan McLeod]

Btw my little Si Performer 1 does 80(!) channels to mix. Compare that to the QL1's 32 mono/8 stereo.

I have a few SI-Performers with a VI-series Compact Stage Box setup as 48x8 - this gave me a few years of 48-inputs and really kept me from buying a larger console for a long time - I as long as my team was mixing on it and we weren't having to meet riders, it's been great solution for us.

Thi was all before Soundcradt's MSB products or the X32/S16 stuff existed.

[Ade Stuart]

Also, you have to be on a CL desk to get more than 16 mixbusses.

Don't forget you can send to a matrix directly from a channel, effectively giving you up to 24 mix busses

[Helge A. Bentsen]

Don't forget you can send to a matrix directly from a channel, effectively giving you up to 24 mix busses

Yes, but I often use them for L/R, fills etc.

Ideally I want mix busses and matrixes.


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[Matthew Knischewsky]

So I'd like to take a step up from my Midas M32 to something a little more rider friendly. But I don't want to lose some of the things that I really like. For instance the EQ overlapping RTA (I feel like that's a must have when mixing monitors). Sometimes I can't hear the feedback but I can see it. Also I really like the rack effects. The emulated compressors like the Fair Compressor. I don't really want to have to run a laptop with Waves. I'd like to just have some extras built into the mixer.

I've been doing all the research I can but details and youtube videos are pretty scarce on some of these new mixers that have come out. Most of them I can't even find a manual on. The Allen & Heath C series Dlive has caught my eye as well as the soundcraft vi2000. Would those be more rider friendly or equally as rider friendly as an M32?

There's a lot of good discussion in this thread. The main take away is the answer to these questions: What consoles are you seeing most often on riders and how often do you need to fill them?

The most obvious choice is still the SC48, I've written about this in the past and I think it's going to remain relevant for at least another couple of years. The Profile is great but it's more money and the SC 48 will get you most of the way there. S6L is a very powerful system but it's customizable features come at a cost, and the learning curve seems steep. I'd rather provide something that's intuitive and recognizable otherwise I end up babysitting the operator all night, likewise when I'm mixing my artists I want a console with a standardized configuration.

Midas, Digico, A&H, Soundcraft all make consoles that are a step up from your M32 but none are nearly as universally accepted as the SC48. That said, I'm not sure I would purchase one new at this point unless it's going to make it's money back in short order. Used consoles come up for sale fairly regularly but if going down this path make sure anything you buy has lots of life left. Most issues I've had have been with the faders, and be sure to test all inputs/outputs.

As Tim McCulloch mentioned, Yamaha is everyone's second choice because it's a known commodity. Right now the QL5 is the best value in Yamaha's line up. It has 32 inputs onboard and is expandable to 64 with the built in Dante interface. It will do most of what a CL5 will do for a lot less money. They've been very reliable and are a big step up from LS9 and M7.

Matt

[George Powell]

I would also agree the SC48 is the used board to buy to fill riders. It would be a no brainer if they were selling for 10k or less but they are getting 15k and that is the issue.  With about the same money or a lot less you can get a newer desk with all the new features like touch screens, apps, cheaper digital snakes, RTA overlay, more processing power, etc so it's hard to spend that much money to fill a couple riders and live without the new features every time YOU use it.  I would want a board I would rather take out on my mix gigs over my X/M32. I'm not sure the 48 would be that board.  I'm afraid it would just sit around till someone needed it because I'm to lazy...I mean efficient...to want to pull out my analog snake, not be able to control the desk remotely for gigs where I do Monitors from FOH,etc.  I have decided that buying something new is going to make ME happier and I will take my chances with riders.  Like I said, I have been able to get my Gear accepted with some conversations most of the time.  Ya just never know. I was just on a gig were there were Profiles at FOH and Mon but an act preforming for a benefit for 30min had to have two SD10s brought in. Maybe they won't be accepted as long as we think.  Things are moving pretty fast these days.   I decided to buy what I think is the best desk in my range for me and my clients after MUCH research and if I'm a smart enough guy and did my homework hopefully I won't be the only one choosing that product and it will become an acceptable desk that will be in my inventory for many years.   


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[Mark Rombouts]

Very happy Allen & Heath user here. I love my GLD80 system. Max 48 inputs, 20 mix busses. Great sound, easy to use and rock solid. Not a single hickup since I have it 5 years ago.

Or maybe a Allen & Heath Dlive if you want even more.

[Tim McCulloch]

I would also agree the SC48 is the used board to buy to fill riders. It would be a no brainer if they were selling for 10k or less but they are getting 15k and that is the issue.  With about the same money or a lot less you can get a newer desk with all the new features like touch screens, apps, cheaper digital snakes, RTA overlay, more processing power, etc so it's hard to spend that much money to fill a couple riders and live without the new features every time YOU use it.  I would want a board I would rather take out on my mix gigs over my X/M32. I'm not sure the 48 would be that board.  I'm afraid it would just sit around till someone needed it because I'm to lazy...I mean efficient...to want to pull out my analog snake, not be able to control the desk remotely for gigs where I do Monitors from FOH,etc.  I have decided that buying something new is going to make ME happier and I will take my chances with riders.  Like I said, I have been able to get my Gear accepted with some conversations most of the time.  Ya just never know. I was just on a gig were there were Profiles at FOH and Mon but an act preforming for a benefit for 30min had to have two SD10s brought in. Maybe they won't be accepted as long as we think.  Things are moving pretty fast these days.   I decided to buy what I think is the best desk in my range for me and my clients after MUCH research and if I'm a smart enough guy and did my homework hopefully I won't be the only one choosing that product and it will become an acceptable desk that will be in my inventory for many years.   


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If it's about doing monitors from FOH, riders are an issue only if there is a Band Engineer traveling and he has a memory stick with show files for his band and a particular desk.  I think in the last 3 years I've personally mixed ZERO shows with monitors from FOH with a Band You've Heard Of.  I can recall only 1 show where the BE mixed mons from FOH.

It IS possible to use a remote computer or tablet with VENUE series desks, but it's not an "app."  I agree that VNC is clunky, but it does in fact work and gives you full control over the mixer, not a sub-set of features.

As for the act that insisted on the Digico mixers... I think I know who that is (won't say in a public forum) but they give charities a significant reduction in fee but expect their rider to be met without exception in exchange.  The merit of that I'll leave for others to discuss, but even getting the desks they want and some of the other things they 'need' is still much less expensive than paying full fee for the artist.

Good luck in picking the next preferred mixer, George.  I got the new Digital Crystal Ball (with outdoor antenna, no less) and it's still pixelating on the Next Great Thing That Costs Less Than $60,000.

[Brian Jojade]

I think the tough thing for me is I'm looking to get a board we will be mixing on 90% of the time and the other 10% I would like it to be somewhat rider friendly because there is almost no where to rent boards around Fargo, ND. Would everyone agree that Yamaha would be the most universally accepted?

How many times could you rent (and pay for shipping) the console the client wants?  Will you have that request enough times that the purchase is justified in the next 5 years?

While shipping isn't cheap, there are rental companies that will ship you the console you need for the event. If you're only needing the console a few times a year, this would be a better financial solution. Plus, by renting, you now can offer ANY console that the customer wants versus just the one that you spent a bucket of money on.

[Brian Bingham]

How many times could you rent (and pay for shipping) the console the client wants?  Will you have that request enough times that the purchase is justified in the next 5 years?

While shipping isn't cheap, there are rental companies that will ship you the console you need for the event. If you're only needing the console a few times a year, this would be a better financial solution. Plus, by renting, you now can offer ANY console that the customer wants versus just the one that you spent a bucket of money on.

Renting probably makes the most sense for now. At least until I have more demand for the big stuff. You are the voice of reason and I think I will listen.

[Tim McCulloch]

Renting probably makes the most sense for now. At least until I have more demand for the big stuff. You are the voice of reason and I think I will listen.

I generally suggest renting any item that you don't send out at least half the time.  You said you have very limited rental options in the Fargo area and I presumed you'd exhausted those possibilities.

[ProSoundWeb Community]