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Author Topic: "Proving" a DIY system  (Read 12058 times)

Chris Grimshaw

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Re: "Proving" a DIY system
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2017, 04:26:52 am »

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies, it's given me a lot to think about.

Particularly the need for me to build some better subs that look the part. In hindsight, strap handles were a terrible move. That's what you get for rushing I suppose. I'll also look into sinking the handles into the panels on the tops.

I have a little experience with the getting people to listen problem - I did a festival recently where a band saw my PA, and were debating bringing their own until they heard it. One guy offered to set up his EV SX300s. Again, before listening.


From a client's point-of-view, then, would it be worth having a video or something similar that they can listen to and hear the difference?

Cheers, all.
Chris

PS - the cabs on the first page have a rosewood stain straight on the plywood. It brings out the grain quite nicely, but I'd recommend a hard clear finish.
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Jeff Bankston

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Re: "Proving" a DIY system
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2017, 04:29:07 am »

I do a lot of building, mainly because I don't see what I'm looking for in commercial designs.
That is one reason I build my own. And I have been building speaker systems since 1970. I thought about going into the PA speaker business but there are way too many companies to compete with.
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Steve M Smith

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Re: "Proving" a DIY system
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2017, 04:32:19 am »

Dismissing a speaker system just because it is a DIY production is silly.  If you are making a known good design with the right drivers, it will be fine. 

Equally, a commercially available known brand enclosure with the wrong driver in could be terrible but would look acceptable.


Steve.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: "Proving" a DIY system
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2017, 06:59:21 am »

Dismissing a speaker system just because it is a DIY production is silly.  If you are making a known good design with the right drivers, it will be fine. 

Equally, a commercially available known brand enclosure with the wrong driver in could be terrible but would look acceptable.


Steve.
And a bad design with good drivers can also have "less than optimum" results.

There are some companies that do good designs with "cheaper" drivers and the results are just fine.  They are used properly.

It is the TOTAL SUM of the parts-not just one part of the overall design.

And as you say-some designs with the "wrong part"-even if the replacement part is "better", will not work as well as with the part that the design was based around.

"Better drivers" does not always yield better performance results.
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Martin Shifflett

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Re: "Proving" a DIY system
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2017, 07:52:25 am »

Hi all,

I touched on this topic in another thread, but didn't want to derail things there so I've started a new thread.

My question was this - how would someone prove a DIY system is a viable alternative to a similar box by <known manufacturer>?

I humbly submit my system as an example:

Subs: 4x sealed boxes loaded with Beyma 15P1200Nd drivers. 15"s, 1200w continuous, EQ'd for a -3dB point of 40Hz. If I want to go louder, I can take the LF cutoff up and gain SPL. Yes, I'm working on some better sub cabs. These leave a lot on the table.
Tops: Direct-radiating TMM design. 2x Faital Pro 10FH520 (10" drivers, 600w continuous, neo, demodulating rings etc etc), 1x 18Sound ND1460 (3" diaphragm, 1.4" exit, neo driver) on an RCF HF94 horn (cast aluminium, 90x40 dispersion). Just tickling the clip light with pink noise, I measured 125dB at 1m, C-weighted, with the meter set to slow.

Here's a quick on-axis measurement (I can't find my off-axis ones, but IIRC the only real difference was that 2kHz and upwards started sloping off, as you'd expect from any HF horn). This was as set-up with a building around 10' behind, mic 10' in front, on-axis with the middle 10" driver. No smoothing, just what arrived at the mic in the back yard. I think I could stand to knock the subs down a little.


Photo:


So yes, if there are any DIY operators out there, how do you convince a client that your system is as good as or better than the competitors' systems?
I suspect convincing clients will be entirely different to convincing you guys, but we all start somewhere.

Chris

I guess it depends on who you are trying to prove it to.  We have been building our own boxes for years, and use nothing else.  We don't deal with the higher level stuff so riders aren't usually an issue.  In our experience, the people making the decision on if they want to use you for an event don't really know the technical side of it.  They have been told questions to ask and such.  We were able to get those people to other events and have them talk to bands and event coordinators to help put their mind at ease. 

I know the majority out there have little faith in DIY stuff, but there is something very gratifying about putting those cabinets out there, knowing that you built them from nothing.  One of our greatest accomplishments was getting a series of events (4000-5000 people) at a ski resort away from a much larger provider in our area.  They had used a Turbosound rig there most of the time and we figured we didn't stand a chance.  The lady came and listened at another event and was pleased enough to give us a chance at a single event.  After the first festival that season she and her husband came up to us and told us how happy they were and asked "what kind of speakers are they?".  When we said "homemade" they just looked at us and each other and then kinda just smiled and said "hell yeah, can you do the whole season?".

So it can be done, at least at the level of events that we provide for.  Never give up.
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Steve M Smith

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Re: "Proving" a DIY system
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2017, 07:58:33 am »

I  agree.  I have done quite a few small events with home made speakers and have had compliments on the sound and bookings from it.

If I had the money at the time, I would have bought something commercially available... but I didn't!


Steve.
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Martin Shifflett

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Re: "Proving" a DIY system
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2017, 08:02:37 am »

I  agree.  I have done quite a few small events with home made speakers and have had compliments on the sound and bookings from it.

If I had the money at the time, I would have bought something commercially available... but I didn't!


Steve.

Exactly!  Everything that we looked at that could cover what we needed it to would have been FAR more expensive and require much more power to push.
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Mac Kerr

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« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2017, 08:12:05 am »

Exactly!

Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real first and last name as required by the posting rules displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions in the Forum Announcements section, and on the registration page when you registered.

Mac
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Martin Shifflett

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Re: Posting Rules
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2017, 08:36:00 am »

Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real first and last name as required by the posting rules displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions in the Forum Announcements section, and on the registration page when you registered.

Mac

Sorry.  Habit.
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Geoff Doane

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Re: "Proving" a DIY system
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2017, 09:28:54 am »

Dismissing a speaker system just because it is a DIY production is silly. 

It may be silly, but it happens all the time.  You'll never win an argument with a prospective client who has been burned by DIY in the past and hasn't heard your system, no matter how good it is. 

OTOH, name brands don't always work out either.

Some time back I took a gig at a bar that had been recently remodelled.  They had built a stage and flown a couple JBL trap cabinets on either side of it.  Since this place was on the second floor, and you had to load everything in on the conveyor belt that carried the beer kegs up, I figured I could leave my EV tops at home and just bring the bass bins.  That was the day I had my first (and last) encounter with JRX speakers.  I honestly thought the horns weren't working, the cabinets sounded so bad.  With some radical EQing I got through the night, but it wasn't much fun.  Next time, I brought my own.

GTD
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 04:31:56 pm by Geoff Doane »
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Re: "Proving" a DIY system
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2017, 09:28:54 am »


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