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Author Topic: "Proving" a DIY system  (Read 12057 times)

Tim McCulloch

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Re: "Proving" a DIY system
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2017, 01:27:07 pm »

Your system looks good and has high quality drivers.  I don't think at your current level of services you will have to meet a tech rider.  Once you have proven it with a few clients, their endorsement for your services should work for you.  Get those endorsements and referrals!

I remember when there were really no "standard" factory built tour systems.  "We" all built boxes (or made improved copies of EV TL or JBL 4530, 4550, 4560 etc.) that would tour better than the cinema and install boxes from the factories at the time.  JBL, EV, and others actually published plans and worked with and large sound companies (remember Electrotec) that built touring rigs using these designs.

That changed and tech riders started saying "no proprietary" systems, and it continues today.  It wasn't that long ago when local, regional, and even national touring companies bought X brand cabs, Y amps, Z processing, and put it together to make a system.  It's one vendor systems now for consistency. Cross renting is easy, and the artists and crew pretty much know what they will get.

I remember when the KF850 came out, touted as the first "virtual array" loudspeaker (that failed miserably at arraying by today's standards although the latest processing helps a lot).  It was the latest, greatest and sounded funky to me but it got hella loud for the day.  Pretty much unless you were an established touring company with proven proprietary stuffs (proven to the BEs and TDs that spec systems for tours), you were buying KF850 in order to keep or attract clients.  The firm I worked for at the time didn't read the memo and spent almost 10 years in denial; glad I left that shop early...

When I started I used Renkus HF drivers on Community horns, JBL cones on Community horns for MF & mid bass, and bass reflex subs with EVM18B drivers.  Soundcraftsmen & QSC power amps, Ashly processing.  Like Ivan, I blew up a fair bit of stuff but I never learned speaker reconing as we had a great, 2nd generation coning guy in town.  I saw him enough that I finally asked him what I was doing wrong.  He said "speakers die because the cone moves too far, or the voice coil gets too hot so figure out what you need to do to stop those things."  Sometimes the damage was obvious (confetti cone!), other times not so much and he was great about saving the VCs and showing me the failures.  I paid for that education a couple of times over before I learned where my "beliefs" about speaker systems did not intersect with the realities of physics.

Kids today have it soooo much easier and better.  Ungrateful whelps!  Get off my lawn!!!

For Chris - good luck, sir; it will take a combination of that and a fair bit of persistence.  I don't think pretty pictures of magnitude or phase will provide an auralization and how it sounds is really what a guest engineer or client is interested in (and the client may not care, either, because it business and not art for them).

The more you can use them and get clients and prospects to see/hear them in use the sooner they will be accepted.  As for riders I can tell you a dirty little secrety thingy - at this level they don't mean squat.  It's always an option for a presenter/promoter to mark out terms they find unacceptable (like the part about the d&b J system for a coffee shop).  If the performer(s) genuinely need something that's been removed, the agency, manager, TM or other artist representative will be calling the promoter.

At the Lounge level most bands or performers will be thrilled if the Systeme du jour is fully functional, adequate for the venue and nature of the performance, the mic stands work without duct tape, the microphones don't stink, all the cables & snake channels work and the monitor wedge doesn't have some strange rattling sound.
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Nathan Riddle

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Re: "Proving" a DIY system
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2017, 01:51:08 pm »

Kids today have it soooo much easier and better.  Ungrateful whelps!  Get off my lawn!!!

Before I do, can I interest you in a business proposition?
I'll mow your lawn in exchange for knowledge, specifically speaker knowledge; how's that sound?  ;D
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: "Proving" a DIY system
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2017, 01:55:28 pm »

DIY speakers used to be pretty common, but you may have an uphill struggle persuading potential customers to even try them.

It depends on your relationship with your customers and your market expectations.

Building DIY speakers that don't suck is only part of the problem.

JR
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Mark Wilkinson

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Re: "Proving" a DIY system
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2017, 04:57:49 pm »

Hi Chris,

Thats a great combination of drivers. I built and have used something very similar for almost 20 years.  The latest version uses BMS 4594 compression driver with an RCF HF950 horn. 

By doing that the MF / HF crossover point can be lowered to 650Hz so the two 10 drivers play very well together without any vertical phase cancelation issues.

One suggestion if you want to get acceptance other than sound quality (as others have said) is that it must look professional the paint finish, grills and handles all have to look like a name brand box.

FWIW here is a picture of my latest DIY project

 Thou art the King of DIY pro audio   !!!
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Jeff Bankston

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Re: "Proving" a DIY system
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2017, 05:10:19 pm »

Al at USSPEAKER is very knowledgeable.

http://www.usspeaker.com/homepage-1.htm
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Rick Powell

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Re: "Proving" a DIY system
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2017, 05:11:01 pm »

It's just a matter of delivering when you have the opportunity. Having a "pro" look" finish will go some way in convincing people that you have a pro-quality system, and of course the proof is in the way it sounds when put to the test. In this business, your performance is your business card, and almost all of our business (outside my self contained band/sound system) is by personal referrals.

Here is one of four 12" coaxial "Smithers wedges" I built about 1 1/2 years ago. Nobody thinks they are a homebrew product unless they look real close. Finished with roll-on Duratex and with black Penn Elcom hardware.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 05:17:19 pm by Rick Powell »
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: "Proving" a DIY system
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2017, 05:17:16 pm »


Kids today have it soooo much easier and better.  Ungrateful whelps!  Get off my lawn!!!


YES

It amazes me that we have all the tools available-that were just pipe dreams decades ago.

We have great ways to share knowledge

Yet so many "youngsters" REFUSE to listen to people who have the EXPERIENCE and have learned the hard way-AND are interested in sharing and helping the kids not make the same mistakes.

Somehow they think that physics has changed-just for them.

They "believe" they have all the answers and us "old farts" simply don't understand "modern" music.

OK-Here is the bill for your stupidity------------

Maybe some day you will start to LISTEN AND LEARN.

There is a FREE EDUCATION out there-all you have to do is to read-listen-learn and understand.

But that is to hard-they just want somebody to confirm what they "think" is right, and don't believe anybody who disagrees with them.

OH WELL-I better stop before I get in trouble.

NOTE: Not all kids are this way-but I am amazed at how many feel this way and REFUSE to learn.
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Keith Broughton

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Re: "Proving" a DIY system
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2017, 05:46:45 pm »


NOTE: Not all kids are this way-but I am amazed at how many feel this way and REFUSE to learn.
One has to find those that WANT to learn end spend the effort on them.
As for the rest, who cares  ::)
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Michael Thompson

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Re: "Proving" a DIY system
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2017, 07:42:35 pm »

One has to find those that WANT to learn end spend the effort on them.
As for the rest, who cares  ::)

I do a lot of building, mainly because I don't see what I'm looking for in commercial designs. Even some of the big players sometimes make some pretty lousy choices when we review the physics.  Many of my clients have grown with me as I've worked in my own designs over the years and they don't question the equipment I provide because they know when they hire me, they'll get great sound whether I use my own design or not.
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duane massey

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Re: "Proving" a DIY system
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2017, 08:29:31 pm »

After 55 years in the business I'm still a "DIY" guy in a manner of speaking. The clients who buy my products have known me for years and like what I build. Many years ago I tried to document the performance of one type of cabinet, but fianlly gave up when I realized that (a) it would make no difference to the market I was in, and (b) I could not find much in the way of accurate numbers from the big boys that I felt were not just marketing fluff. If you're dealing locally, just make certain the client hears them (and sees them).
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Duane Massey
Technician, musician, stubborn old guy
Houston, Texas

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: "Proving" a DIY system
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2017, 08:29:31 pm »


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