ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Down

Author Topic: Vocal mic with less proximity effect  (Read 9298 times)

george welder

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20
Vocal mic with less proximity effect
« on: February 03, 2017, 08:39:27 PM »

First I'd like to thank all those that freely contribute on these forums. Thank you, it is greatly appreciated. :)

I apologize as much has already been covered pertaining to vocal mic quality and such. I've read through the sticky on vocal mic's, searches on "vocal mic proximity", the shoot outs, as well as the road tests. It's been quite enlightening.

I am doing a small duo acoustic show, two vocals and two acoustic guitars (run direct). I desire a vocal mic with a less pronounced proximity effect than an sm58. It's not that I dislike the sound of the sm58 or even the b58's, just looking for a good sounding mic that will "get quieter" as I pull off of it without the tone changing drastically.

I am open to condenser's as well as dynamics. We're using one wedge that is run at a very moderate level so gain before feedback and off axis rejection aren't mission critical. I am used to singing loud, while "eating" the mic, on loud stages with a full band. This is a more nuanced project that requires self mixing, hence the need for a mic with a more consistent response. (High harmony parts are thinning out as I back off to mix with other singer.)

Contenders but not limited to:
Shure SM86
Shure B87c
Shure KSM8
Telefunken M80
Heil PR35
Heil PR22


Thank you for comments and/or suggestions.

George


Logged

Jay Barracato

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2025
  • Solomons, MD
Re: Vocal mic with less proximity effect
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2017, 09:00:10 PM »

Unusual choice but works well in this application: EV re320

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Logged
Jay Barracato

Corey Scogin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1266
  • Birmingham, AL, US
Re: Vocal mic with less proximity effect
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2017, 09:51:45 PM »

Alternatively, you could figure out a way to stay further from the mic. The further away, the less the tone is affected by changes in distance.
Logged

Mike Maly

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 109
Re: Vocal mic with less proximity effect
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2017, 12:05:44 AM »

Shure KSM8, little-to-no proximity affect was a primary design influence.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged
-Maly Sound:
Hear the difference

John Rutirasiri

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 732
Re: Vocal mic with less proximity effect
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2017, 12:28:42 AM »

Add AKG C535 to that list.

Logged
ClearImpact Sound & Event Services, Inc.
Sound/Lighting/Corporate A/V

"If it ain't broke, make it better."

Wayne Smith2

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 119
Re: Vocal mic with less proximity effect
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2017, 02:34:18 AM »

I'll offer that I'm finding the KSM8 has turned out to be my favorite now, in that it's very well behaved in that regard.
It seems to strike a nice balance between the typical dynamics, vs the RE16 for example that feels to me singing goes too far, and has no low end lift' at all as you're working the mic.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 02:36:47 AM by Wayne Smith2 »
Logged

Keith Broughton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3667
  • Toronto
Re: Vocal mic with less proximity effect
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2017, 06:40:15 AM »

Shure KSM8, little-to-no proximity affect was a primary design influence.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I just used the KSM8 for 3 singers and I will agree that the proximity effect is much better behaved.
Logged
I don't care enough to be apathetic

eric lenasbunt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 861
    • Bunt Backline Event Services, LLC
Re: Vocal mic with less proximity effect
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2017, 07:26:53 AM »

KSM8 all day every day. Sounds pretty much the same from 8" back as it does on the mic. They can even cup the hell out of it and still sounds the same. Crazy nice
Logged

Tim Halligan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 381
Re: Vocal mic with less proximity effect
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2017, 07:40:33 AM »

They can even cup the hell out of it and still sounds the same.

Now that's impressive.

Will have to investigate further.

Thanks.

Cheers,
Tim
Logged
An analogue brain in a digital world.

Dave Pluke

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1782
  • Northwest GA, USA
    • BIGG GRIN Productions
Re: Vocal mic with less proximity effect
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2017, 11:25:53 AM »


Contenders but not limited to:
Shure SM86
Shure B87c
Shure KSM8
Telefunken M80
Heil PR35
Heil PR22

I have the last 3 on your list and the Heil PR22 exhibits the least proximity effect of those.  The PR35 with included outboard windscreen would be next.

Back in the late 70's, I recall using an EV mic with an elongated windscreen that physically kept voices further away from the diaphragm.  Not sure if anyone is making a similar format nowadays.  The Blue enCore 300 looks kinda like it, albeit in an uncircumcised version...

If you venture into hypercardioid territory, be careful using a single wedge right behind the mic.

Dave


Logged
...an analog man in a digital world [tm]

Flying direct to nearly everywhere out of ATL

Clayton Ganzer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 52
Re: Vocal mic with less proximity effect
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2017, 11:43:40 AM »

I bought an EV RE20 for a podcast for this exact same reason, proximity effect was far less than other mics I tested and listened too.
Logged

Dave Bednarski

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 315
Re: Vocal mic with less proximity effect
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2017, 02:03:10 PM »

KSM8... loved it so much I bought 6.

I liked the Heil PR22 for similar reasons but it had handling noise for those who like to dance around and sing songs.
Logged

Wayne Smith2

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 119
Re: Vocal mic with less proximity effect
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2017, 02:58:38 PM »

I have the last 3 on your list and the Heil PR22 exhibits the least proximity effect of those.  The PR35 with included outboard windscreen would be next.

Back in the late 70's, I recall using an EV mic with an elongated windscreen that physically kept voices further away from the diaphragm.  Not sure if anyone is making a similar format nowadays.  The Blue enCore 300 looks kinda like it, albeit in an uncircumcised version...

If you venture into hypercardioid territory, be careful using a single wedge right behind the mic.

Dave

I run foam screens pretty much by default now (and disclaimer- I'm mostly just doing our own bands here.
I find at the 'local talent' level they're a big plus especially with marginal mic technique in the mix. And establishing a bit of minimum distance really aids to keep them out of trouble.
The PR-35 is one that really stuck out as benefiting in 'muffled 'too close tones.
I wish I could find one that could set a given bit of distance to the mic under it with something more than the friction fit holding it.
I'm not finding the need for this on the KSM8 FWIW.
Logged

Dave Dermont

  • Forum Moderator
  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 376
  • From The Great Pocono Northeast
Re: Vocal mic with less proximity effect
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2017, 04:22:17 PM »

First I'd like to thank all those that freely contribute on these forums. Thank you, it is greatly appreciated. :)

I apologize as much has already been covered pertaining to vocal mic quality and such. I've read through the sticky on vocal mic's, searches on "vocal mic proximity", the shoot outs, as well as the road tests. It's been quite enlightening.

I am doing a small duo acoustic show, two vocals and two acoustic guitars (run direct). I desire a vocal mic with a less pronounced proximity effect than an sm58. It's not that I dislike the sound of the sm58 or even the b58's, just looking for a good sounding mic that will "get quieter" as I pull off of it without the tone changing drastically.

I am open to condenser's as well as dynamics. We're using one wedge that is run at a very moderate level so gain before feedback and off axis rejection aren't mission critical. I am used to singing loud, while "eating" the mic, on loud stages with a full band. This is a more nuanced project that requires self mixing, hence the need for a mic with a more consistent response. (High harmony parts are thinning out as I back off to mix with other singer.)

Contenders but not limited to:
Shure SM86
Shure B87c
Shure KSM8
Telefunken M80
Heil PR35
Heil PR22


Thank you for comments and/or suggestions.

George

The EV Variable-D microphones are specifically built to do what you are looking for, the RE 20 being the one you see most often in sound reinforcement situations. The RE 320 is a bit newer and less pricey.

The EV RE16 also has the same technology, and is a more "conventional" design for vocal use. It's a supercardioid too.

Again, a bit more expensive than your average bear, but if that's what you want this is what provides it.

They are available on the used market, but they have been making these mics for a long long time. A lot of what's available used can be pretty trashed.
Logged
Dave Dermont

Warning: Dates on calendar may be closer than they appear

Kyle Waters

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 56
Re: Vocal mic with less proximity effect
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2017, 08:59:34 AM »

You can't go wrong with anything heil.   I've gotten to the point that I hate anything condenser except for quiet instruments.   I've even switched our choir mics over to pr30's with wonderful results.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Logged

Trevor Jalla

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 89
Re: Vocal mic with less proximity effect
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2017, 12:17:18 PM »

I've been using a KSM9 for over 4 years, 3-4 times a week. Set to cardiod, it has very manageable (ie low) proximity effect. Plus it sounds great and suits my voice. My Telefunken M80 has proximity effect, but its clear and clear bass - not muddy or indistinct. Worth a consideration, on the dynamic front.

I've sung once into a KSM8 but only a guest, for one song. Sounded good, but I was right on the mic for the whole song, so can't really comment as far as comparing to the KSM9 regarding proximity.

PR35 had huge bottom end when you eat it. Not what you want, IMO.

Logged

Stephen Kirby

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3006
Re: Vocal mic with less proximity effect
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2017, 02:37:53 PM »

How does the KSM 8 compare to an RE20 as a sax mic.  The EV has long been a first choice and I've been thinking of getting one this year.  But a dual purpose mic might also be great.
Logged

george welder

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20
Re: Vocal mic with less proximity effect
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2017, 01:22:20 AM »

Thank you all for the generous advice and suggestions. Definetely some I hadn't considered.


Alternatively, you could figure out a way to stay further from the mic. The further away, the less the tone is affected by changes in distance.
This gets my wallets vote. ;D It probably is that simple and is just sound advice. Thank you Corey.

A buddy has been using some Heil's and offered to let me check out the pr22 and pr35, so I'll start there. I have no doubt the ksm8 is wonderful and will probably end up with a couple in the locker. The EV's are some I hadn't thought of and the AKG peaks my interest. Just as I was getting a handle on my GAS.

Last question. Which one comes with "free" pitch correction. ;)

Thanks all

(side note, I'm looking into a possible lawsuit against Warwick. Ad claimed that this bass practically plays itself... I can asure you it does not. Practically or otherwise.)
Logged

Roland Clarke

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 841
Re: Vocal mic with less proximity effect
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2017, 09:00:45 AM »

Thank you all for the generous advice and suggestions. Definetely some I hadn't considered.

This gets my wallets vote. ;D It probably is that simple and is just sound advice. Thank you Corey.

A buddy has been using some Heil's and offered to let me check out the pr22 and pr35, so I'll start there. I have no doubt the ksm8 is wonderful and will probably end up with a couple in the locker. The EV's are some I hadn't thought of and the AKG peaks my interest. Just as I was getting a handle on my GAS.

Last question. Which one comes with "free" pitch correction. ;)

Thanks all

(side note, I'm looking into a possible lawsuit against Warwick. Ad claimed that this bass practically plays itself... I can asure you it does not. Practically or otherwise.)

The KSM 9 is a great mic in that it does offer better than usual bass control due to its dual diaphram construction.  I've heard similar reports about the KSM 8.  At their price they are expensive and there are arguably better microphones at this price point, however, the ksm offers very good performance, with low spill and good feedback rejection.  As always it's a compromise, but I don't know any other microphone that quite does this balance so well.  The amount you see in use on high end shows seems to be an endorsement of this view.
Logged

g'bye, Dick Rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7424
  • Duluth
Re: Vocal mic with less proximity effect
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2017, 01:31:30 PM »

If you've never seen an old pro work a 58 to take full advantage of the nuances achievable by artful use of the polar pattern and proximity you've missed out on the true art of vocal/mic performance.  When 58's were pretty much all that were available, folks darn well figured out how to make them get up on their hind legs and walk.

Bah, humbug...

/rant
Logged
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 23736
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: Vocal mic with less proximity effect
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2017, 05:28:00 PM »

If you've never seen an old pro work a 58 to take full advantage of the nuances achievable by artful use of the polar pattern and proximity you've missed out on the true art of vocal/mic performance.  When 58's were pretty much all that were available, folks darn well figured out how to make them get up on their hind legs and walk.

Bah, humbug...

/rant

^^^  +1000
Logged
"If you're passing on your way, from Palm Springs to L.A., Give a wave to good ol' Dave, Say hello to progress and goodbye to the Moonlight Motor Inn." - Steve Spurgin, Moonlight Motor Inn

Andrew Broughton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2315
    • Check Check One Two
Re: Vocal mic with less proximity effect
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2017, 05:41:31 PM »

I'm looking forward to trying out the KSM8 on this tour, comparing it with the venerable SM58. It'll be interesting to to see how it performs when 2 players sing on one mic at the same time.
Logged
-Andy

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle..."

http://www.checkcheckonetwo.com
Saving lives through Digital Audio, Programming and Electronics.

Mac Kerr

  • Old enough to know better
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7551
  • Audio Plumber
Re: Vocal mic with less proximity effect
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2017, 10:25:02 PM »

If you've never seen an old pro work a 58 to take full advantage of the nuances achievable by artful use of the polar pattern and proximity you've missed out on the true art of vocal/mic performance.  When 58's were pretty much all that were available, folks darn well figured out how to make them get up on their hind legs and walk.

Bah, humbug...

/rant

Get off my lawn!

Mac
Logged

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Vocal mic with less proximity effect
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2017, 10:25:02 PM »


Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Up
 



Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.047 seconds with 24 queries.