ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Down

Author Topic: Security  (Read 6756 times)

Aaron Maurer

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 226
Security
« on: February 01, 2017, 07:00:14 PM »

So recently provided sound for a band in a venue and just had a real tough time with the security/bouncer. Nothing I did seem to suit him. Been in the venue multiple times before with no issues. Never seen him before but was so disrespectful. He lied to management and had them on my six until I called him out and pretty much told all parties involved I was ready to pack my toys and go home. All of a sudden the crap stopped. Trust me I have not had this happen in a long time and never to this extent. I won't bore you with all the details unless you want me to write a book it was that rediculous. I find that most security to be helpful and on your side or just flat out leave you alone but this jerk was out of control.  Left management know it when I departed after I had to unstack tables off the last sub that he stacked on them to get one more jab at me on the way out the door loading the trailer.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 07:05:25 PM by Aaron Maurer »
Logged

Tom Roche

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 626
  • Behind the Zion Curtain
Re: Security
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2017, 07:18:28 PM »

It's difficult to understand what issue you had without more info (summarize; no books, please).  When providing/running sound, my job has never been about "suiting" security, though I believe it's a good MO to be a decent person with all I interact.  One time as a band member I had to provide the bouncer my ID card when loading in gear.  I thought it was silly, but didn't make a big deal out of it. 
Logged

Scott Holtzman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7536
  • Ghost AV - Avon Lake, OH
    • Ghost Audio Visual Systems, LLC
Re: Security
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2017, 07:34:05 PM »

It's difficult to understand what issue you had without more info (summarize; no books, please).  When providing/running sound, my job has never been about "suiting" security, though I believe it's a good MO to be a decent person with all I interact.  One time as a band member I had to provide the bouncer my ID card when loading in gear.  I thought it was silly, but didn't make a big deal out of it.


Security almost always gives a wide birth to credentialed crew.  Was this a small venue?  Sounds like swinging dick syndrome.  I would have called him out just as you did.


You made the right call.  We are not paid enough to deal with intrusive security.  If whomever hires me doesn't want to provide a suitable work environment (that is in my contract) then leaving is the best for all parties. 



Logged
Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
www.ghostav.rocks

Aaron Maurer

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 226
Re: Security
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2017, 08:00:54 PM »

Short and Sweet:

Been there several times to run sound and have eaten dinner each time including the last which invited the wife to accompany me.

Started to setup FOH to not disturb other patrons still seated and eating near stage area and bouncer watches me move chairs into another area I placed them the last two times I worked there. I didt know who he was as he was staring at me and I honestly thought maybe he was a sound buff waiting to see the console???  Then proceeded to light my ass up in front of everyone that I could just come in and re-arrange things. He proceeded to stack crap in front of console. I said very nicely "tell me what I can do to help accommodate you". He wanted nothing to do with me. So I moved to the stage area to get away from him.

Keep in mind I waited to the last minute to setup and was under the time crunch to get it up and running.  Had one table of very nice young ladies right where the sub needs to go. I set everything up and ran cables. Waited until the last minute and asked them if they wouldn't mind shifting 2' and they were more than happy to help. As soon as we start sliding the table I get jumped by guess who!  At this point i was getting annoyed and he says put your gear on the stage. Remember I am all wired up on stage right with cables piled everywhere in the mad rush and cables runs ready for speakers at stage left. So I said I wasn't sure what the issue is I setup this way last two times on the floor. He runs off telling me he is going to get a manager. Ok great and back to work 7mins to start and didn't even get the mains on and here comes manager #1 asking me what the problem is. I told him the two situations and he said I should put my gear on the stage and again I said no. He watched me setup where I did and then wants to change things last minute NO! Manager #1 leaves and 3 min to show time and I am powering up and I hear manager #2 gal say "you can't tell my patrons to get up and leave". I said whomever on your staff told you that is a liar and please bring them to the table I asked to give me 2' and have him recite what I said and see if they agree. I then continued to get the my patrons this and that speech and that I should move my gear onto the stage. This is when I lost it a bit and said  with a pretty stern voice the next move is to the trailer. I will jump through hoops to accommodate a venue as I love what I do. Zero tolerance for liars and folks that protect them.

So I think they got the picture and security wad is eyeing me up all night like he wanted to go on a date. So as I am loading out he is outside staring me down and suddenly my wife says he tried to move the sub and she told him no so he stacked tables on it.

Immature BS from a ego maniac.

On the bright side I had two patrons come to me and say it sounded great. One of them said no one brings a guy like you (soundman) in here and they are just to loud. I told both of the. To go tell management the nice comments you told me.😀

« Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 08:04:08 PM by Aaron Maurer »
Logged

g'bye, Dick Rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7424
  • Duluth
Re: Security
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2017, 08:44:13 PM »

Never EVER start in messing with customer seating without clearing it with the manager first...no matter how many times you've been there.  Shut up and put it on stage for the night and deal with it BEFORE the gig next time.

Contrary to some opinions, their most important priority is not to make your life easy, it's to serve the paying customers and feed their cash register.  The band is the next to last thing on their priority list.  The sound guy follows close behind.

Get used to it.
Logged
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

Aaron Maurer

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 226
Re: Security
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2017, 08:59:46 PM »

Sorry Dick but that is something I am not going to get used to (stacking tables on my gear?). Don't disagree that next time ask for the staff to move things but will not be disrespected by anyone. You missed the point and that's ok. Thanks but I don't do well with liars and bully's. It's called communication and when it fails no one wins.
Logged

Ray Aberle

  • Classic LAB
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3455
  • Located in Vancouver, WA (and serves OR-WA-ID-BC)
    • Kelcema Audio
Re: Security
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2017, 09:06:35 PM »

Aaron, you missed Dick's point. What he was saying is don't start re-arranging tables/chairs without clearing it with the venue manager first. You didn't do that, and right off the bat you have a combative atmosphere with their security people. Yes, the staff may have handled it poorly, but once you knew there was a problem, that's when you should have spoken to whomever hires you and worked out a solution, rather than ignoring the security people (and yes, continuing to move other things without clearing it with them first is ignoring them).

Both parties failed; it's now up to you to learn from this so you can avoid these issues in the future. Making sure a clear action plan is agreed upon in advance is best. With that, you can also ask the venue to arrange things for you!

-Ray
Logged
Kelcema Audio
Regional - Serving Pacific Northwest (OR, WA, ID, BC)

Aaron Maurer

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 226
Re: Security
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2017, 09:37:32 PM »

Agree Ray and there are lessons learned on my end for sure. I do see Dick's point as well and did take it in the wrong context. Thanks for the clarification. That said i can be a bit more selective on where I park my gear for the evening. That's the bigger lesson learned for me!
Logged

Ray Aberle

  • Classic LAB
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3455
  • Located in Vancouver, WA (and serves OR-WA-ID-BC)
    • Kelcema Audio
Re: Security
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2017, 09:41:52 PM »

That said i can be a bit more selective on where I park my gear for the evening. That's the bigger lesson learned for me!

And that's the goal of your chat with this particular venue--
either
a) Come to an agreement on how you can re-arrange things,
b) Have them re-arrange the furniture prior to your arrival (and their opening-- which means you won't have to disturb guests! And, for tables that might be situated close to where the PA will go, a table tent indicating that "This table will be close to the speakers, during our live performances tonight" will help patrons choose wisely!) or
c) buck it up, and deal with things laid how they are.

(Or d) not work there anymore, but I assume we want to avoid that!)

Once the MFIC is in agreement with your layout, your night will go a lot smoother.

-Ray
Logged
Kelcema Audio
Regional - Serving Pacific Northwest (OR, WA, ID, BC)

Debbie Dunkley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6046
  • Central North Carolina
Re: Security
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2017, 11:29:47 PM »

Oh boy - I have been in that type of situation so many times and it is always when I have such a small window of time to set up. My brave little inner voice always tells me to do the exact same thing Aaron did - "This is the way I do things so to heck with you buddy", but my outside realistic voice has always said, " Of course Sir, no problem". It is very frustrating and sad the day you realize you are last on the important list.
Any table you may want to move whether folks are seated at it or not is technically a 'money table' and the first thing I always do is ask the manager or person in charge as to what I can move and to where..
One thing - if the clock is ticking too far into my set up time I will always politely let the manger know this as soon as I hit the red line and advise him of how much the start of the show will be delayed because of it. That way he has a choice which matters most to him - getting the show started on time or losing a couple of money tables. Either way I get paid the same amount. I have never had a problem with this approach - so far!
« Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 11:36:16 PM by Debbie Dunkley »
Logged
A young child says to his mother, "Mom, when I grow up I'm going to be a musician." She replies, "Well honey, you know you can't do both."

Craig Hauber

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 991
  • Mondak Sound Design - Plentywood MT/Grenora ND
Re: Security
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2017, 11:47:12 PM »

Agree Ray and there are lessons learned on my end for sure. I do see Dick's point as well and did take it in the wrong context. Thanks for the clarification. That said i can be a bit more selective on where I park my gear for the evening. That's the bigger lesson learned for me!

The ONLY advantage in the good 'ol days of large heavy gear was...

nobody ever argued with the guys carrying in the 850's
(and bouncers usually hid somewhere so as not to get recruited into carrying the 3K)

...Like I said, the ONLY advantage!
Logged
Craig Hauber
Mondak Sound Design
-Live PA
-Installs
-Theatre

Dave Pluke

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1782
  • Northwest GA, USA
    • BIGG GRIN Productions
Re: Security
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2017, 07:59:34 AM »


One thing - if the clock is ticking too far into my set up time I will always politely let the manger know this as soon as I hit the red line and advise him of how much the start of the show will be delayed because of it. That way he has a choice which matters most to him - getting the show started on time or losing a couple of money tables.

Great approach, Debbie!

Dave
Logged
...an analog man in a digital world [tm]

Flying direct to nearly everywhere out of ATL

scottstephens

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 402
Re: Security
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2017, 09:56:12 AM »

Hey all,

I've never had trouble with security, but during the 2008 election  year stuff  I was supplying a console and some odds and ends for a V.P candidate at a local outdoor venue and we rolled in about 5 am and the event started about 12. And the Uniformed Secret Service guys are REALLY serious about things.

I had a few of those of 3/8 inch (?) mic clip adapters in my pocket and I was given the complete search. Those guys are intimidating. The crew laughed their asses off.

scott
Logged

Scott Olewiler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1198
  • Trust me, it will be loud enough.
    • 4th Street Sound
Re: Security
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2017, 10:57:56 AM »

I had similar situaiton just last Saturday. Place was completely packed when we arrived, but the two 8 ft tables that needed to be moved were empty.  So knowing never to move table on my own I went tot the bar to try and find someone in charge. I explained that we were there to set up and needed those tables moved. I just got blank stares. The guy who booked us was not there, as he been in the past, and remaining folks looked overwhelmed by the crowd size.

No one seemed to be in charge and, sure as sh*t, people coming in sat down at those tables we needed moved.  After another 30 miniutes of no one doing anything I went up to the fellow I first talked to and said, so should we just wait?  "I guess so"

During this whole thing I was kind of an ass, something I later  regretted as this wasn't a sound job for me this was my band playing.

They guy who booked us came in about 5 minutes before we we supposed so start; looked over the situation; asked if we minded starting late and within 15 minutes the "stage" area was cleared and folks relocated.  We managed to get the system and band set up and ready to roll in 45 minutes, and the entire show was pushed back an hour. 

They sold a lot of food at those 2 tables during the 2 hrs we couldn't do anything.  And they were glad to have that buisness. Now I hope me being an ass doesn't stop us from coming back. if I had to do over again I wouldn't have much better attitude.


 Fortunately numerous people have told us we are the best band to ever play there.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2017, 11:19:20 AM by Scott Olewiler »
Logged
We're here to deliver the sound equipment. Who has the check?

William Schnake

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 592
    • Schnake Sound & Light
Re: Security
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2017, 10:59:04 AM »

nobody ever argued with the guys carrying in the 850's
(and bouncers usually hid somewhere so as not to get recruited into carrying the 3K)


Oh for the good old days...when we use to run mixers...not computers.  Of course my back does feel better after load-in/out these days.

Bill
Logged
Bill Schnake - Owner Schnake Sound & Light

Avid/Crown/EAW/EV/Midas/RCF/Shure/Yamaha

schnakesound.com

Steve M Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3381
  • Isle of Wight - England
Re: Security
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2017, 11:13:10 AM »

We don't have trouble with security.  It helps that my son has the required security certification here (UK) and works with some of them.

He is also a St John Ambulance advanced first aider and trainee paramedic, so he's quite useful to have around.


Steve.
Logged

Don T. Williams

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1064
  • Midas Pro 1 & 2, M32, dbTech T12, T8, S30, DM12
    • Q Systems Music & Sound
Re: Security
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2017, 11:32:02 AM »

Not exactly the situation that Aaron ran into, but I have been donating a sound system and setting it up for a charity auction in a ballroom for several years.  This year, the event organizers set up their auction item tables where we had previously placed our speaker systems, K Array KR200's which are only 19" wide.  Previously these had worked exceptionally well for this event with louder than needed even coverage and no feedback problems.

We started to move two tables apart to to make room for the loudspeakers and the event "manager" jumped all over us.  We ask where we could place the speakers and she picked what was probably the worst possible location.  We explained that this location would not work very well, explained that with such a wide room that some (maybe most) of the people would not be able to hear the direct sound from the loudspeakers, and ask her to reconsider.  She refused (said "oh they can move if they need to hear"), so we placed the loudspeakers where she wanted them, set up the podium mic, and tested the system.  Coverage was less than optimal, but there was no feedback and and it sounded good as long as you were within about 6 to 8 inches of the mic.

The event, which I could not attend because my crew and I were working another event, apparently had sound problems all night long.  The auctioneer (who donated his services also), came in the following Monday and complained bitterly about how bad the sound was when he plugged in his wireless lavaliere system.  We heard he plugged it in before the event to "test" it and "adjusted the system".  I have no idea about what he did.  I explained to him that we had no choice about sound system placement, and we had tested the system with the only mic they requested.  That didn't matter and he blamed us for the "bad sound".  Two other people who attended the event also told me how awful the sound was.  It was a no win situation for me.  Sometimes no good deed goes unpunished!
Logged

Ray Aberle

  • Classic LAB
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3455
  • Located in Vancouver, WA (and serves OR-WA-ID-BC)
    • Kelcema Audio
Re: Security
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2017, 02:13:06 PM »

Hopefully they'll understand why you'll be charging for a technician to be onsite for their show next year. :)

-Ray
Logged
Kelcema Audio
Regional - Serving Pacific Northwest (OR, WA, ID, BC)

Scott Olewiler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1198
  • Trust me, it will be loud enough.
    • 4th Street Sound
Re: Security
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2017, 02:40:43 PM »



That would be good time to whip out  a release of liability document for them to sign to document that they were warned and did not take your advice. Of course that doesn't stop them from telling everyone else what a lousy job you did.
Logged
We're here to deliver the sound equipment. Who has the check?

Scott Holtzman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7536
  • Ghost AV - Avon Lake, OH
    • Ghost Audio Visual Systems, LLC
Re: Security
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2017, 02:46:36 PM »

Sorry Dick but that is something I am not going to get used to (stacking tables on my gear?). Don't disagree that next time ask for the staff to move things but will not be disrespected by anyone. You missed the point and that's ok. Thanks but I don't do well with liars and bully's. It's called communication and when it fails no one wins.


The first thing I do when I walk in on a hired gig is seek out the person in charge.  Hand over a card, if I was hired by the band explain why I am there.


Then if need anything done I clearly tell them what I am doing and why.  This includes connection to A/C, any house gear.   Try to avoided seated guests at all costs.  If I have to set something off to the side I pin it in advance and move on.


If this is the first time at  a venue I always add plenty of time.


For the clubs we work with the owners that's a different story all together.  We work out a process and over time develop a relationship.



Logged
Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
www.ghostav.rocks

Stephen Kirby

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3006
Re: Security
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2017, 03:31:02 PM »

Places that are restaurants by evening and dance bars by night are always a pain.  Even loading in can be a hassle if a large group has moved tables around for themselves and blocks access to the stage.  I always go to the staff, doorman, maitre'd or manager if I can find them and explain that the band needs access or that tables X are where the band needs to set up.  And that the music will be delayed until the area is clear.  Leaving it up to them to relocate things or make the music late, at their option.  Sometimes they get people to move, sometimes they wait until the folks leave and scramble to move the tables.  At that point I can start, and will make every obvious effort to get set up quickly but making it clear that it was management's choice to delay the 2nd half of the evening because of the 1st half.  Which part makes them more money is their bailiwick, mine is just the entertainment part they hired.
Logged

g'bye, Dick Rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7424
  • Duluth
Re: Security
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2017, 03:44:21 PM »

Places that are restaurants by evening and dance bars by night are always a pain.  Even loading in can be a hassle if a large group has moved tables around for themselves and blocks access to the stage.  I always go to the staff, doorman, maitre'd or manager if I can find them and explain that the band needs access or that tables X are where the band needs to set up.  And that the music will be delayed until the area is clear.  Leaving it up to them to relocate things or make the music late, at their option.  Sometimes they get people to move, sometimes they wait until the folks leave and scramble to move the tables.  At that point I can start, and will make every obvious effort to get set up quickly but making it clear that it was management's choice to delay the 2nd half of the evening because of the 1st half.  Which part makes them more money is their bailiwick, mine is just the entertainment part they hired.

Yup.  There were a few instances when the best way was to load in between the lunch rush and the dinner hour.  This meant sometime between 2 and 4 in the afternoon and avoided having to truck everything through the dining area...which was necessary because there was no other access to the stage other than the area where the staff was serving customers.

I still have the black scrim material I used to cover the PA gear piled on the stage.  The worst of all were the places that used the "stage" to get a few extra tables set up.  I have seldom been more relieved than the day I quit that end of the business as JNWTT...just not worth the trouble.
Logged
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

Scott Holtzman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7536
  • Ghost AV - Avon Lake, OH
    • Ghost Audio Visual Systems, LLC
Re: Security
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2017, 05:48:32 PM »


I still have the black scrim material I used to cover the PA gear piled on the stage.  The worst of all were the places that used the "stage" to get a few extra tables set up.  I have seldom been more relieved than the day I quit that end of the business as JNWTT...just not worth the trouble.


Since we got our start in those mixed use venues it's hard to let go of it all as many of our clients still play those rooms but we have grown with them to the private events and larger shows.


There is no doubt that the amount of hassle to do a restaurant or a bar gig is disproportionate.  Professionalism goes out the window, you are looked at as a whack job if you complain about power as "nobody else has a problem", safety and of course there is no money to staff it right so I either pay a helper or kill myself setting up and running the gig.


I already have been given the "getting too big for my britches" talk and told to remember where we came from so for now we still work in the clubs.











Logged
Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
www.ghostav.rocks

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Security
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2017, 05:48:32 PM »


Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Up
 



Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.037 seconds with 24 queries.