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Author Topic: Mixing different types of subs  (Read 10098 times)

Michael Gorecki

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Re: Mixing different types of subs
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2017, 01:17:38 pm »

I have access to both 1 GP218 and smaart + mic if he doesn't, I could take measurements.

The single sub is installed in a venue so the measurements will need to be taken with a grain of salt.

Also, my thread discusses this topic already but with different components, perhaps it can be of some help?
http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,158560.0.html

I don't have any real measurement software, the closest thing I have to Smaart is an integration with the Presonus software. I do have the dbx measurement mic and an interface if there is software that I could download without spending $500+. I should have some time on Saturday to mess around.




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Michael Gorecki

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Re: Mixing different types of subs
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2017, 01:27:05 pm »

Michael, given you have a day before to load in and try things, and that you need to use your 8 subs split into LR speaker stands, and it appears that the only cost of trying out the horn subs for use as an additional center stack.....
....is the effort...... unless the effort is simply too much hassle, I'd give the horn-subs a try.

I mean, great chance to learn....
And indoors, IMHO, all bets are off with subs anyway...even if they're all the same..
The room adds so many "reflected virtual subs", it's pretty much trial and error (at least for me)... ...(without any prediction software)..

That's exactly what I was thinking. I don't ever have this much time to mess around with gear and it's my first EDM event with my gear. It's usually, get in get out. If it was any other genre of music I wouldn't even consider the extra subs.

Worst case scenario I can put the subs back in the trailer and take them home a day early.



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Nathan Riddle

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Re: Mixing different types of subs
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2017, 01:43:39 pm »

I don't have any real measurement software, the closest thing I have to Smaart is an integration with the Presonus software. I do have the dbx measurement mic and an interface if there is software that I could download without spending $500+. I should have some time on Saturday to mess around.


You have everything you need. You can download SMAART's 30 day trial for free.

The problem is getting useful measurements and the learning curve is quite steep.

Though I agree with Mark. Switch between the two and try it out.

Something to note is when switching different' speakers on/off to "ground out" the speakers that are off. [atleast that's what i've read before, not sure if it still carries truth].
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Michael Gorecki

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Re: Mixing different types of subs
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2017, 01:56:45 pm »

Perfect, I will give it a shot and I will try to get the system up and running in my apartment before hand. Maybe I'll take some reading of my stereo or something.

What do you mean by "ground out"?


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Mark Wilkinson

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Re: Mixing different types of subs
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2017, 02:04:21 pm »


What do you mean by "ground out"?


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It means short the speaker outputs.

If speakers, particularly subs, are in close proximity, the sub just sitting there acts as a passive radiator and dicks up the response.  Shorting pretty much stops that.

I've measured it on subs...it can be fairly substantial if in close proximity. 
Might not matter if your case ....if you have enough distance.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 02:09:14 pm by Mark Wilkinson »
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Nathan Riddle

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Re: Mixing different types of subs
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2017, 02:07:50 pm »

Perfect, I will give it a shot and I will try to get the system up and running in my apartment before hand. Maybe I'll take some reading of my stereo or something.

What do you mean by "ground out"?


Sorry, it's a phrase I use for draining capacitors so they don't shock you.

Bridge the neg/pos wires on each sub with a short wire so the cones don't move (thus either absorbing sound energy) or performing like a passive radiator.

Before getting started, read both of these guides.

http://www.rationalacoustics.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Getting-Started-with-Smaart-v7.4.pdf
https://www.rationalacoustics.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Smaart-v7-IR-Guide.pdf

Also, the measurement guru's will stress that getting useful measurements or interpreting the results is the largest part; not getting the software and hardware to communicate. They will also tell you that without taking a course it's pretty much useless to try.

I somewhat agree, experiment have fun; but don't even think for a second that they are useful measurements. [I'm still in this phase]
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Michael Gorecki

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Re: Mixing different types of subs
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2017, 02:11:51 pm »

"Short the speaker outputs" to me means "turn off the amp"

But it sounds like I should move the other speakers away. Do you think that throwing a couple packing blankets and sandbags in the horns will deaden them enough.

I planned on laying the horns down (horns out) and double stacking. Unless having the four upright is a better option. Again I've never deployed a set of horns. Just going off what I've seen.


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Nathan Riddle

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Re: Mixing different types of subs
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2017, 02:26:25 pm »

"Short the speaker outputs" to me means "turn off the amp"

No. Unplug the amp and short the binding posts.

But it sounds like I should move the other speakers away. Do you think that throwing a couple packing blankets and sandbags in the horns will deaden them enough.

No. Unless you are moving them to a different building (which to me is more work than shorting the binding posts).
No. Unless you fill the horns with concrete (which to me is way more work than shorting the binding posts).

I planned on laying the horns down (horns out) and double stacking. Unless having the four upright is a better option. Again I've never deployed a set of horns. Just going off what I've seen.

True 1/2 horns should have their throats coupled; that gives a smoother, louder, and lower response.

If stacking wouldn't work (too high, too much concentrated weight, etc.) then upright is okay.

http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?topic=93983.0
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lindsay Dean

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Re: Mixing different types of subs
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2017, 02:27:54 pm »

« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 02:35:34 pm by lindsay Dean »
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Michael Gorecki

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Re: Mixing different types of subs
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2017, 02:33:15 pm »

Sorry, it's a phrase I use for draining capacitors so they don't shock you.

Bridge the neg/pos wires on each sub with a short wire so the cones don't move (thus either absorbing sound energy) or performing like a passive radiator.

Before getting started, read both of these guides.

http://www.rationalacoustics.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Getting-Started-with-Smaart-v7.4.pdf
https://www.rationalacoustics.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Smaart-v7-IR-Guide.pdf

Also, the measurement guru's will stress that getting useful measurements or interpreting the results is the largest part; not getting the software and hardware to communicate. They will also tell you that without taking a course it's pretty much useless to try.

I somewhat agree, experiment have fun; but don't even think for a second that they are useful measurements. [I'm still in this phase]

I'm going to leave my last post up just to acknowledge and learn from my own ignorance.

So you're saying that if I make a NL4 to bare wire adapter and connect the +\- 1 together and the +\-2 together that it will prevent the drivers from moving? Won't the cabinets just resonate at the frequencies they are tuned to when presented with those frequencies? Or does with prevent "passive radiation" as you call it?

I've seen guys get chewed out on different  forums for not supplying proper measurements or using the software incorrectly.

But I've got to start somewhere. So until I meet up with somebody local that I can learn from I'll keep posting here. (I'm in SoCal) It's all fun to me, but not nearly as scientific as I'd like to be.



This is from the other day when I compared the two stacks. It's amazing what the difference in processors will do. The SLS rig is on a XTA DP266 and the EV's are in a Dc One. The sub filters in the XTA are what I made in the DC one and I didn't realize how different they sounded until I had them side by side.

I'm always interested in learning new things, is there a book that you recommend or a course to take somewhere. Maybe online?





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Re: Mixing different types of subs
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2017, 02:33:15 pm »


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