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Author Topic: Live sound tips and tricks  (Read 6815 times)

brian maddox

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Re: Live sound tips and tricks
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2016, 03:51:15 pm »

...
My biggest club technique is to get the stage as quiet as possible. Iems, small amps, and a light drummer. That goes so much further than anytbing else.

My biggest Club Technique is NEVER EVER Go to Clubs, much less mix in them.  :)

I am officially like Danny Glover in Lethal Weapon.  Waaaay too old for this sh*t...
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Rick Powell

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Re: Live sound tips and tricks
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2016, 03:54:35 pm »

One thing I try to do is, whenever there is a sound deficiency, look for the "acoustic" solution first before looking for the "electronic" solution. This goes for everything from controlling the stage volume to placing the floor monitors out of the feedback path to proper drum tuning and drum mic placement. When the acoustic issues are addressed, it becomes so much easier to apply the electronics to put the finishing touches on the mix rather than using them to fight uphill against mother nature.
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Jamin Lynch

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Re: Live sound tips and tricks
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2016, 04:12:44 pm »

One thing I try to do is, whenever there is a sound deficiency, look for the "acoustic" solution first before looking for the "electronic" solution. This goes for everything from controlling the stage volume to placing the floor monitors out of the feedback path to proper drum tuning and drum mic placement. When the acoustic issues are addressed, it becomes so much easier to apply the electronics to put the finishing touches on the mix rather than using them to fight uphill against mother nature.

Exactly.

If you're having to use "tricks" to get a better guitar sound, you may want to have a conversation with the guitar player first. If that doesn't work, then try some mixing techniques that you've had experience with to make it as good as you can without going overboard.

Same thing for all the instruments on stage. Fix it at the source first, then use creative mixing techniques only if you have to.

Not every musician is open to constructive criticism though. Sometimes you just have to deal with it best you can.
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TimHackford

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Re: Live sound tips and tricks
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2016, 04:37:20 pm »

Hey guys I reallly appreciate the input..I should be a little more clear on things as I was hoping this thread could be a useful tool to everyone not just me and a place where a few people could share a few things they have learned over the years!

I didn't mean 30sec that was me being stupid I meant 30ms however I have dialed it back to 21 for a spot where things sounded really good.

A point I make with the band is to keep our stage volume to a minimum, we have two stage setups one with an electric kit Roland TD 15 and we DI all guitars from amp heads going into our pedal boards, bass amp Di out etc to eliminate any stage volume and it's much easier to get a really great sounding mix when it's all done off the desk.
   We only really use the electric setup as we like to call it when it's a small room and the acoustic drum kit is going to be too loud for the room or if there is a sound limiter.

When we use the drummers acoustic kit for the bigger venues or whenever it's suitable it's a different story because obviously we have our amps..the amps have to be up to be picked up well enough in the mic but they are never at deafening levels. It's then when I try to compensate for that on the desk as our other guitarist isn't always playing his guitar and sometimes on an acoustic guitar or sometimes just singing I try to make the main guitar a really good mix that sits just under the vocal at all times because i cant always be riding the faders and playing and if i need to pull back in the mix a little i will do it from my pedal board etc. That way when the other guitar drops out it doesn't take away from the mix too much that it sounds empty or thin.

The delay technique achieved this and gave me a much wider sounding guitar and seemed to be more what I wanted it to sound like. I've recently discovered how to end one input to two outputs by patching them from desk..didn't know the o1v96 could do that and so far have been very surpised..can't see me using this on many things tho. This thread wasn't to take everyone's tricks and use them all I know I need to find what works for me and that's exactly what I'm doing I just wondered what other techniques were out there to achieve different sounds.

I mean this all with good intentions and with no bad feeling towards anyone..I appreciate your input!

Tim
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Robert Piascik

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Re: Live sound tips and tricks
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2016, 04:38:53 pm »

My biggest Club Technique is NEVER EVER Go to Clubs, much less mix in them.  :)

Damn! I was hoping to pick up some "tricks" myself from some of the veterans here. Instead all I'm getting is "good advice."

C'mon! Quit holding out! I KNOW you've got some secret "tricks" up your sleeve!

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Jamin Lynch

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Re: Live sound tips and tricks
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2016, 04:52:51 pm »

Damn! I was hoping to pick up some "tricks" myself from some of the veterans here. Instead all I'm getting is "good advice."

C'mon! Quit holding out! I KNOW you've got some secret "tricks" up your sleeve!

LMAO

I've found that a lot of veterans don't easily give up their secrets.
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: Live sound tips and tricks
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2016, 06:30:37 pm »

A "wide" sound only really works for people fairly equidistant from the multiple sources.  Years ago I put a slave on the other side of the stage and ran a stereo chorus.  Drove the singers in the middle nuts.   ;D  I've played folks rigs who have the wet/dry or wet/dry/wet setup with multiple amps or a couple of PA speakers straddling the amp, a la Larry Carlton.  Sounds great right behind you.  Very difficult to get that effect out to the audience through the PA.  A small amount of decorrelation as in a reverb can spread a sound a bit.  The old recording trick of just flipping the polarity on opposite channels can make the sound wider for anyone in the middle.  Folks near one side or the other of the PA aren't going to really get any time based effects.  And as mentioned, time longer than a moderate phase shift may sound odd to someone hearing the delayed sound louder than the primary.
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Douglas R. Allen

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Re: Live sound tips and tricks
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2016, 07:58:54 pm »

I've recently discovered how to end one input to two outputs by patching them from desk..didn't know the o1v96 could do that and so far have been very surpised..can't see me using this on many things tho.
Tim

Tim;

As an o1v and o1v96 user I've used the double patch system for many years.
Need to eq a monitor send different from the main mix ? Assign what you need to another layer or channel.
Assign the bass guitar to 2 channels. Have one with no compression and the other squash it somewhat. Try the compressor for just the lows. Bring your high cut down to 400hz on the compressed channel and the low cut up to 400hz on the non compressed channel. Gives you a multi band compressor of sorts if needed. Try different eq and flip the polarity back and forth one one of those channels as well.
Same with bass drum. I like to have 2 channels used on my bass drum.  I use Aux fed subs. One channel will be compressed  to taste and sent to the L/R mid highs but not the aux that feeds the subs.  The other channel will have no compression and will not be patched to the L/R but will be sent to the sub's via the aux. Now I can have 4 parametrics for the mid/highs and have an easy way to control song for song if slight bottom adjustments are needed.(end of a song thump as an effect )  Keep in mind how this changes the relationship at the crossover for this one channel.
I do the same for a guitar. I use 20 ms ;-)

To me its really not a trick. Its mixing. As long as those on stage like what they hear and it is OK 'ed by them I use double patching if it improves the mix. If it is not needed its just as easy to not use the second channel. Like an eq,compressor, gate, speaker system processor etc its a tool to be used....if needed.

I like to record tracks then setup the pa in a good room and take the time with the drummer,bass player etc.to get what they like.

Douglas R. Allen
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TimHackford

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Re: Live sound tips and tricks
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2016, 09:29:43 pm »


All amazing replies and exactly the type of thing I hoped for! For "effects" I tend to really only use a bit of compression, some gating on the drums, reverb and recently a little delay.

My main focus is really trying to get that three dimensional sound nailed as best as I can, of course it will change a little room to room but the amps, mic, instruments and PA doesn't change and is the same 3 - 4 nights a week with me manning the sound so I can experiment more.
With the o1v96 I have found a few times I've run out of eq bands once I use a hpf and a lpf so the duplication of tracks might give me a little more eq possibilities to get things really polished.

Parallel processing is new to me and is exactly the kind of "tricks" I was thinking of. We have a low stage volume and sense of dynamics, we know our instruments and the sound they make its getting that and enhancing it with our PA that I'm trying to achieve.

Doug thanks very much for those tips to me it's something I didn't know was possible with the o1v96 till a few days ago and will give everything you said a go. The band trusts me on the sound..not had any complaints and am free to try whatever will work or enhance our sound. We rent a hall to practise and have plenty of time to tweak.

Thanks again
Tim
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dave briar

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Re: Live sound tips and tricks
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2016, 12:26:12 am »

--snip--
My biggest club technique is to get the stage as quiet as possible. Iems, small amps, and a light drummer. That goes so much further than anytbing else.
This!
   ...along with parallel compression on the vocals;)

   ..dave
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Re: Live sound tips and tricks
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2016, 12:26:12 am »


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