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Author Topic: Genie Lift Stage Roof?  (Read 16726 times)

Mark Cadwallader

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Re: Genie Lift Stage Roof?
« Reply #50 on: December 08, 2016, 08:56:48 pm »

This is generally what I try to do when I can.  Sometimes putting the majority of my rig on the stage is unavoidable though.  Every 'real' stage I work on provides loading diagrams for their overhead structures (though I don't currently fly speakers or light trusses), but in cases where say I want to hang a handful of light fixtures from venue-supplied trussing (such as in a theater), would there be anyway to be held harmless if the truss or batten fails so long as my fixtures were hung correctly and within the stated working load of the equipment?


The following is not intended as legal advice, nor should it be construed as such. Laws vary from state to state (in the USA), and other countries may have very different legal systems. Consult your own attorney, insurance agent, or other trusted advisor.  YMMV.

The ability to be "held harmless" can arise from the contract you have with the venue, or it can be a function of your liability insurance, and that of the venue's insurance.   Good luck negotiating the former, but who knows.

The alternative is to make sure that the venue has lots of insurance, the venue makes specific representations about load ratings, AND you can prove what you hung and that you did so correctly.  You will still get sued, but you probably won't ultimately have to pay damages or legal fees.

As I said above, if you want to know what specific steps you need to take, please talk to your lawyers and insurance person.
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Jeff Lelko

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Re: Genie Lift Stage Roof?
« Reply #51 on: December 08, 2016, 09:07:55 pm »

As I said above, if you want to know what specific steps you need to take, please talk to your lawyers and insurance person.

That's definitely the best next step I think.  Given that this job brought these questions and concerns to mind, I'd like to know at least how to proceed with these situations in the future so that I do so in my best interest. 
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Genie Lift Stage Roof?
« Reply #52 on: December 09, 2016, 01:58:29 am »

This is generally what I try to do when I can.  Sometimes putting the majority of my rig on the stage is unavoidable though.  Every 'real' stage I work on provides loading diagrams for their overhead structures (though I don't currently fly speakers or light trusses), but in cases where say I want to hang a handful of light fixtures from venue-supplied trussing (such as in a theater), would there be anyway to be held harmless if the truss or batten fails so long as my fixtures were hung correctly and within the stated working load of the equipment?

I definitely agree with this, though I try not to fire clients.  I know it's a part of the business, but I don't want to pick up a stigma of being difficult to work with despite the topic of safety being very important.   

I like this idea actually as being a polite way of declining a job instead of saying "your stage is a death trap and I'm not getting near it".  Well, I can always say that too, but I try to treat my clients with respect even if they don't return the favor.

I wish that would have happened here.  This particular group really needs a wake-up call.  I know this job was a real eye-opener for me at least! 

Anyways, I really appreciate all the advice.  I don't want to publicly rant about a specific client and I've been holding back quite a bit here, so I'll just leave it at this, but I've definitely learned to give everything a much closer look during my walk-downs before signing on to take a job.  Thanks again!

There's no way to absolutely be "held harmless".  The best you can do is require your client to indemnify you contractually, perhaps adding your company as an additional named insured on their policy, but you're not going to escape defending yourself.  About the best you can hope for is to get someone else to pay for that defense.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Genie Lift Stage Roof?
« Reply #53 on: December 09, 2016, 03:24:11 am »

There's no way to absolutely be "held harmless".  The best you can do is require your client to indemnify you contractually, perhaps adding your company as an additional named insured on their policy, but you're not going to escape defending yourself.  About the best you can hope for is to get someone else to pay for that defense.

Tim is right, I also am not a lawyer and highly suggest you have a conversation with someone who specializes in civil law.

The general concept is that you can't waive liability if found negligent.  In civil law the burden of proof is substantially lower than in criminal court 'a preponderance  of evidence' a tipping of the scale.

A waiver in the contract is a defense that you can assert, it is not a shield against someone presenting a claim against you.

Your lawyer can place language in the contract identifying stated risks and if these specific evens happen the chance of using the the language as an affirmative defense is in your favor.

Broad statements of knowledge and prior knowledge are less likely to rise to  the level of an affirmative defense.  An affirmative defense is a good outcome as it puts a quick end to the action.

Lastly if any of your actions is deemed as negligent, negligent by contribution (this one always gives me a chill) as deemed by the "reasonable man" test then you have liability. 

The worst situation is feeling financial pressure to assume liability to complete a job. 

Good luck.
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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Re: Genie Lift Stage Roof?
« Reply #54 on: December 09, 2016, 08:56:22 am »

Mine is an altogether pedestrian solution:  WALK.

I can guarantee you will be "held harmless".
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Re: Genie Lift Stage Roof?
« Reply #54 on: December 09, 2016, 08:56:22 am »


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