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Author Topic: Wireless Gurus take a look into your crystal ball please  (Read 4768 times)

Dan Currie

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Re: Wireless Gurus take a look into your crystal ball please
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2016, 02:01:08 am »

Mac,
  Thanks for the link.  I have been paying attention to the auction/s and it has been interesting.  In some markets losing an arbitrary number like 60mhz and repacking existing stations into the new spectrum would make our lives as RF coordinators pretty challenging.  Salt Lake currently has 7 TV stations above channel 37.  There are only 9 available 6mhz chunks below ch 37.  A one for one re-pack would leave 12mhz edit: 24mhz of 'white space' in this fictitious scenario.  I don't claim to be an expert and maybe I'm misunderstanding....

Would current broadcasters lose their spectrum privilege if they don't take part/bid in the reverse auction?  If so that would help us as part 15 unlicensed and part 74 users tremendously.  Right now I'm not holding my breath for blue skies on the rf horizon.


Read THIS. So far the auction has been a bust. We are about to start round four, where the cleared spectrum is set at 84MHz, this is significantly down from the original expectations. If fewer bands get sold, fewer stations will have to be repacked into the sub 600MHz band.

It is likely there will be some sale and some repacking, but it is hard to know at this point what the final outcome will be.

Mac
« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 10:26:04 am by Dan Currie »
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Dan Currie

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Re: Wireless Gurus take a look into your crystal ball please
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2016, 10:22:02 am »

To help clarify...IF a theoretical 60mhz of spectrum was lost it would leave 24mhz of spectrum above channel 37 in.  In this Salt Lake example 60mhz is represented by the X's.  TV stations labeled 1,2,3,4 could remain above channel 37 leaving no spectrum for white spaces. Stations 5,6,7,8 would have to migrate leaving 24mhz of white space available.  We could hopefully count on another 12mhz or so from the duplex gap and guard bands.  Experts...am I off base with this theoretical example? 

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Cameron Stuckey

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Re: Wireless Gurus take a look into your crystal ball please
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2016, 11:48:20 am »

Experts...am I off base with this theoretical example?

At the risk of mixing metaphors, you're not off base but you're not on the money either.

No broadcaster is being forced to do anything, not by force of law or financial penalty anyway. This is an Incentive auction for broadcasters. They are being given (a quickly shrinking) financial incentive to get off the air, move to a VHF channel or lower UHF channel, or share a ATSC bit stream with another channel.

The Stage 4 Band Plan is 7 5MHz Uplink blocks beginning at 698MHz and descending until 663MHz, where there will be an 11MHz Duplex Gap descending to 652MHz, and then 7 5MHz Downlink blocks descending through 617MHz, and then a 3MHz Guard Band stopping at 614MHz. 70MHz of spectrum will be dedicated to Cellular services and 14MHz with be protective bands. The 3MHz guard band will have it's lower 2MHz(614-616MHz) protected for the use of unlicensed wireless microphones, no WSDs. The 11MHz D.Gap will have a 1MHz lower buffer(652MHz-653MHz), 4MHz protected exclusively for Part 74(653MHz-657MHz) and 6MHz for unprotected Part 15 wireless mics and WSDs(657MHz-663MHz). So for Part 74 users, this will be 12MHz of spectrum in the gaps, for Part 15 unlicensed it would be 8MHz(2 without WSDs, 6 with WSDs).

Using your SLC example and the assumption of Stage 4 success, everything above TV37(614MHz) would need to clear. All 8 of those channels would need to relocate in one of the prior mentioned methods(move, share, leave). It looks to me like there is a broadcaster on TV26, leaving only 10 empty options to repack 8 channels(VHF not included). However, since we do not know the desire of the broadcasters prior to the completion, there may be several in the SLC market that do not wish to move to smaller UHF for a small pay-off but to move to a VHF, share the bit stream or leave for the larger pay-offs. If any of those broadcasters above 614MHz are an SD channel(480i) there is no reason I can see of them to remain on the air with their own transmitter and antenna costs. They can easily fit in the unused space of an HD channel(1080i) on the same 6MHz signal. Or I believe it is 7 SD channels can fit on to one 6MHz signal. A common implementation is 1 720p channel, with 5 480i subchannels within one 6MHz block, but I digress.

There are options where the broadcasters clear the Stage 4 spectrum and do not reappear after the repack. However, it's all simply speculation until the both the Reverse and Forward auctions match successfully. I personally think that Stage 4 is the best option aesthetically and for long term engineering of spectrum sharing and proper services separation.
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Henry Cohen

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Re: Wireless Gurus take a look into your crystal ball please
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2016, 02:32:27 pm »

I personally think that Stage 4 is the best option aesthetically and for long term engineering of spectrum sharing and proper services separation.

Given how fast the bidding stopped in Stage 3 Phase II, and the resulting gross bid amount was less than Stage 2, my vote is it goes to Stage 5 (as do several financial analysts who delve deeply into this).
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Henry Cohen

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Kevin Maxwell

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Re: Wireless Gurus take a look into your crystal ball please
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2016, 02:38:19 pm »

At the risk of mixing metaphors, you're not off base but you're not on the money either.

No broadcaster is being forced to do anything, not by force of law or financial penalty anyway. This is an Incentive auction for broadcasters. They are being given (a quickly shrinking) financial incentive to get off the air, move to a VHF channel or lower UHF channel, or share a ATSC bit stream with another channel.

The Stage 4 Band Plan is 7 5MHz Uplink blocks beginning at 698MHz and descending until 663MHz, where there will be an 11MHz Duplex Gap descending to 652MHz, and then 7 5MHz Downlink blocks descending through 617MHz, and then a 3MHz Guard Band stopping at 614MHz. 70MHz of spectrum will be dedicated to Cellular services and 14MHz with be protective bands. The 3MHz guard band will have it's lower 2MHz(614-616MHz) protected for the use of unlicensed wireless microphones, no WSDs. The 11MHz D.Gap will have a 1MHz lower buffer(652MHz-653MHz), 4MHz protected exclusively for Part 74(653MHz-657MHz) and 6MHz for unprotected Part 15 wireless mics and WSDs(657MHz-663MHz). So for Part 74 users, this will be 12MHz of spectrum in the gaps, for Part 15 unlicensed it would be 8MHz(2 without WSDs, 6 with WSDs).

Using your SLC example and the assumption of Stage 4 success, everything above TV37(614MHz) would need to clear. All 8 of those channels would need to relocate in one of the prior mentioned methods(move, share, leave). It looks to me like there is a broadcaster on TV26, leaving only 10 empty options to repack 8 channels(VHF not included). However, since we do not know the desire of the broadcasters prior to the completion, there may be several in the SLC market that do not wish to move to smaller UHF for a small pay-off but to move to a VHF, share the bit stream or leave for the larger pay-offs. If any of those broadcasters above 614MHz are an SD channel(480i) there is no reason I can see of them to remain on the air with their own transmitter and antenna costs. They can easily fit in the unused space of an HD channel(1080i) on the same 6MHz signal. Or I believe it is 7 SD channels can fit on to one 6MHz signal. A common implementation is 1 720p channel, with 5 480i subchannels within one 6MHz block, but I digress.

There are options where the broadcasters clear the Stage 4 spectrum and do not reappear after the repack. However, it's all simply speculation until the both the Reverse and Forward auctions match successfully. I personally think that Stage 4 is the best option aesthetically and for long term engineering of spectrum sharing and proper services separation.

Arenít some broadcasters still on the air so they qualify under the must carry rules for cable? Is there an incentive as in they will still qualify under must carry even though they arenít broadcasting over the air if they take a deal?
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Cameron Stuckey

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Re: Wireless Gurus take a look into your crystal ball please
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2016, 03:50:43 pm »

Given how fast the bidding stopped in Stage 3 Phase II, and the resulting gross bid amount was less than Stage 2, my vote is it goes to Stage 5 (as do several financial analysts who delve deeply into this).

Too bad. TV38 will be such an orphan from our perspective. The symmetry and aesthetics of using TV37 and its services as a guard between DTV and cellular adjacent services really appealed to my engineering principles. The Sales Department can't make anything easy, can they?

Arenít some broadcasters still on the air so they qualify under the must carry rules for cable? Is there an incentive as in they will still qualify under must carry even though they arenít broadcasting over the air if they take a deal?

I do not know the specifics of Must-Carry rules but if those license holders are required to stay on the air, they still have two options that would remove them from the UHF spectrum: moving to a VHF channel or sharing a ATSC stream with another channel. Either of those options still nets that license holder some money but I think it's safe to assume that those broadcasters who qualify as must-carry make enough money from the venture to not exit the market.
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Re: Wireless Gurus take a look into your crystal ball please
¬ę Reply #15 on: December 11, 2016, 03:50:43 pm ¬Ľ


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