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Author Topic: Smart GFCI outlet, NO reverse polarity!  (Read 3259 times)

Jeff Robinson

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Smart GFCI outlet, NO reverse polarity!
« on: October 25, 2016, 10:53:36 am »

While I found this device through work, I suggest you find equivalents at your local electrical supplier:
http://ecatalog.hubbell-wiring.com/productinformation/specsheets/3A/Live/PDF/GFTWRST20IU_cart.pdf

Self testing, tamper resistant, corrosion resistant, protects against mis-wiring (reverse polarity = shut off both face and load terminals). Also higher cost. UL keeps upping the listing requirements as time goes by.

FYI and HTH,

Jeff Robinson
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frank kayser

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Re: Smart GFCI outlet, NO reverse polarity!
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2016, 11:26:38 am »

While I found this device through work, I suggest you find equivalents at your local electrical supplier:
http://ecatalog.hubbell-wiring.com/productinformation/specsheets/3A/Live/PDF/GFTWRST20IU_cart.pdf

Self testing, tamper resistant, corrosion resistant, protects against mis-wiring (reverse polarity = shut off both face and load terminals). Also higher cost. UL keeps upping the listing requirements as time goes by.

FYI and HTH,

Jeff Robinson
Leviton also has the self-testing polarity-protected GFCI.
During my kitchen renovation, I put in two tamper-resistant shuttered outlets  (NON-GFCI, one Decora style, one standard, not the $0.50 cheapies, either).  Absolutely HATE them.  Doesn't matter, two-prong or three, those two outlets are a real PITA to get anything plugged into. Shutter is always problematic at best.  Having something like that on stage would be a big problem. 

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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Smart GFCI outlet, NO reverse polarity!
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2016, 12:13:46 pm »

While I found this device through work, I suggest you find equivalents at your local electrical supplier:
http://ecatalog.hubbell-wiring.com/productinformation/specsheets/3A/Live/PDF/GFTWRST20IU_cart.pdf

Self testing, tamper resistant, corrosion resistant, protects against mis-wiring (reverse polarity = shut off both face and load terminals). Also higher cost. UL keeps upping the listing requirements as time goes by.

FYI and HTH,

Jeff Robinson
Um no...  They do not test for line/neutral polarity reversed, but test for line/load (input/output) GFCI wiring swap.

I actually designed a device that would test for polarity and not connect power if line/neutral polarity reversed. It required a touch contact and an expensive 3 pole relay. I abandoned the project as too expensive (and complicated UL approval process) for such a tiny niche market (music back line portable power drops).

I suspect a real company (like Hubbel) might incorporate my touch technology into a GFCI that refuses to set/reset if line/neutral reversed, but i am not holding my breath. I already wasted too much time and money on this. 

JR
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Smart GFCI outlet, NO reverse polarity!
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2016, 12:35:31 pm »

Leviton also has the self-testing polarity-protected GFCI.
During my kitchen renovation, I put in two tamper-resistant shuttered outlets  (NON-GFCI, one Decora style, one standard, not the $0.50 cheapies, either).  Absolutely HATE them.  Doesn't matter, two-prong or three, those two outlets are a real PITA to get anything plugged into. Shutter is always problematic at best.  Having something like that on stage would be a big problem.

The same GFCI technology is available in a non-TR package.  TR is required in resi and a good idea wherever children are around (churches, schools etc).  In locations like that, safety for kids trumps convenience for me-but if kids won't be around then you can safely use the other style.  With GFCI's the TR seems reduntant, but it is still required at times.
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Steve Swaffer

frank kayser

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Re: Smart GFCI outlet, NO reverse polarity!
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2016, 03:44:58 pm »

Um no...  They do not test for line/neutral polarity reversed, but test for line/load (input/output) GFCI wiring swap.

I actually designed a device that would test for polarity and not connect power if line/neutral polarity reversed. It required a touch contact and an expensive 3 pole relay. I abandoned the project as too expensive (and complicated UL approval process) for such a tiny niche market (music back line portable power drops).

I suspect a real company (like Hubbel) might incorporate my touch technology into a GFCI that refuses to set/reset if line/neutral reversed, but i am not holding my breath. I already wasted too much time and money on this. 

JR
As usual, you are correct, sir. I was thinking line-load only.
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Rob Spence

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Re: Smart GFCI outlet, NO reverse polarity!
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2016, 03:03:58 pm »

Leviton also has the self-testing polarity-protected GFCI.
During my kitchen renovation, I put in two tamper-resistant shuttered outlets  (NON-GFCI, one Decora style, one standard, not the $0.50 cheapies, either).  Absolutely HATE them.  Doesn't matter, two-prong or three, those two outlets are a real PITA to get anything plugged into. Shutter is always problematic at best.  Having something like that on stage would be a big problem.

When I renovated my house in 2008 I had to comply with the 2008 NEC.
I also hated the "tamper resistant" receptacles. The good news is that after some use they got much easier to use and these days I don't even notice them on the receptacles I use most often.



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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Smart GFCI outlet, NO reverse polarity!
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2016, 11:37:12 am »

I just checked another project off my bucket list.  ;D

I replaced the standard (ungrounded) 2-pin Edison outlet in my laundry room with a GFCI receptacle for the outlet my dishwasher and washing machine both plug into.  Since this was literally 3' from my fuse box I jumped a new ground wire over from the outlet to the fuse box.

I know my jury rigged ground works because it promptly blew the 20A fuse when I restored power. :o  Even though I bought the "narrow" GFCI, the hot screw touched the metal side of the (just now) grounded box and let the smoke out of the fuse. After adding a plastic insulator/spacer, the new 15A fuse I replaced the blown 20A with, held and the outlet is now finally GFCI & grounded.  8) It seems both a washing machine and dishwasher should be properly grounded, and GFCI.

We'll see if the 15A fuse holds, back in the day I used to run a hot air popcorn popper and some other current hogs on that branch (coffee maker, microwave, etc)... I am optimistic the 15A will work (it should).

I was pleasantly surprised to find the hot and neutral wired correctly to the old outlet that was clearly tired. The dishwasher was experiencing intermittent power dropouts from (dirty or oxidized) outlet/plug contacts.

JR
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Re: Smart GFCI outlet, NO reverse polarity!
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2016, 11:37:12 am »


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