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Author Topic: Inserts on Soundcraft Expression / Performer 2  (Read 4247 times)

Antoine van de Cruyssen

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Inserts on Soundcraft Expression / Performer 2
« on: November 22, 2016, 10:09:13 am »

Hi all,

This is my first post to this forum, so I hope I'm placing it in the correct sub forum.

At this moment I am deciding what is going to be my next console. I'm fully analog till now, people appreciate me on my specific sound, therefore I drag a lot of equipment next to my mixing table and connect all that by means of aux routes and inserts.

I'm thinking at the moment for a Soundcraft expression / performer (because of the scribble strips) 2. I downloaded the offline editor of both tables, and I can not get how to use the 22 insertpoints that firmware 1.7 is giving me. When I look at the patch screen, I can only select Line input 1-4 or MADI channels as insert return. But why on earth would I want to use a local send (e.g. output 1) and have the return on a stagebox? Isn't it possible to use local (on the desk) output 1 and local input 1 as send return?  ???

My goal is to use the mini stagebox 32 on stage, and use the local I/O on the table to add some effects / dynamics / etc.

I've downloaded half the internet but can not find the answer, hopefully somebody can shine a light for me :)

Thanks in advance and best regards,
Antoine van de Cruyssen
The Netherlands
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: Inserts on Soundcraft Expression / Performer 2
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2016, 12:29:47 pm »

You can pretty much freely assign any inputs or outputs to any of the analog or digital I/Os on the board and stagebox.
The internal routing is quite simple, and you can access it through the menu button at the top of the screen on the Offline software.
The software is pretty clunky, and the version I have doesn't get to the stagebox.
I do all my setup on the board on the workbench.
For the finer points, download the manual from the SC website.
http://soundcraft.com.s3.amazonaws.com/downloads/user-guides/SiPerformer-UserGuide-2.08-screen.pdf
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Antoine van de Cruyssen

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Re: Inserts on Soundcraft Expression / Performer 2
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2016, 01:01:36 pm »

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your answer!

It's really strange, but maybe I'm doing something wrong. Unfortunatly I only have the offline performer (yet ;)), which is a nice tool. I don't have any "plug in cards" enabled and it's a cleared setup.

So I press select on fader 1. Assign it to MIC01, named "Test"
Then press "insert", assign insert 1 to "Pre EQ Test"
Then press Insert setup. then I get the following, as in the attached screenshot.
Insert 1 Send select XLR Out 1
Insert 1 Return, I can only select Line in 1 ~ 8, AES 1 ~ 2 and Digital In 1 ~ 128. But no MICxx

I really love the idea of this table, but this would be a dealbreaker for me if this isn't possible, then I would rather stick to my old analog table.
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: Inserts on Soundcraft Expression / Performer 2
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2016, 08:03:22 pm »

I just looked on my Performer, and it shows what you stated, including the digital channels on my installed cards.
I guess they intended for the TRS inputs as inserts or line ins.
It looks like you can't use the XLR inputs for an insert.
I haven't needed any inserts, so I can't say from experience.
Do you need more than eight channels for your outboards?
There are pretty decent effects and processing built in.

You might get more feedback if you post this in the Lounge.
there are lots of SI users there.
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Antoine van de Cruyssen

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Re: Inserts on Soundcraft Expression / Performer 2
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2016, 03:47:44 am »

Thats really strange isn't it? Why on earth I would like to create inserts on my stagebox? But not locally? Maybe I should send an email to soundcraft.

For the amount of money I'm going to spend on this 4500 euros for the console and 2000 for the stagebox 32. This has to work, otherwise I'd better go analog again.

Anyway thank you very much for watching on your console  :), really appreciate it!
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Antoine van de Cruyssen

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Re: Inserts on Soundcraft Expression / Performer 2
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2016, 11:45:40 am »

Sent an email to the Dutch distributor, we'll wait for an answer.

To reply your question, yeah, need it, first I already have a CD player and a tablet connected to the Line ins. Was thinking, it is also possible I think to use a direct out on output 1-16 and simply plug back in on input 1-16. But I think I will loose 16 faders then... :-\
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: Inserts on Soundcraft Expression / Performer 2
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2016, 12:54:01 pm »

I'm guessing they don't want the inputs used for inserts because they go through the mic pres.
You could use a mini stagebox 1, but the second 8 outs are AES.
But it still has the mic pre issue on the ins.
Dante card?
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Antoine van de Cruyssen

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Re: Inserts on Soundcraft Expression / Performer 2
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2016, 12:59:29 pm »

What's wrong with mic pre's simply put the gain to line level? Moreover the stagebox has the same mic pre's. Still think it's strange.

Do you know if you can use a direct out patched to an input without using a fader? That would also solve the issue I think.
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Antoine van de Cruyssen

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Re: Inserts on Soundcraft Expression / Performer 2
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2016, 01:07:23 pm »

Perhaps an adat card, don't know if there is an adat option actually.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 01:10:08 pm by Antoine van de Cruyssen »
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: Inserts on Soundcraft Expression / Performer 2
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2016, 08:06:42 pm »

Yes, the Multi-digital IO card has ADAT in and out.

USB 32x32  or  Firewire 32x32
and ADAT 8x8
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Nothing can be made idiot-proof; only idiot resistant.

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Antoine van de Cruyssen

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Re: Inserts on Soundcraft Expression / Performer 2
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2016, 04:41:53 pm »

Well, after extensive mail contact with soundcraft, we've found out it isn't possible to use the xlr inputs as insert returns.  :-\

Guess I'll stay analog for a while. This way, it becomes way WAY to expensive.

Why digital consoles all seem to lack inserts? ???
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David Sturzenbecher

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Re: Inserts on Soundcraft Expression / Performer 2
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2016, 08:45:55 am »



Why digital consoles all seem to lack inserts? ???

Why manufacture something into a desk that  9 people will use?  What outboard gear are you using that is so special? 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Antoine van de Cruyssen

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Re: Inserts on Soundcraft Expression / Performer 2
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2016, 01:56:46 pm »

Why manufacture something into a desk that  9 people will use?  What outboard gear are you using that is so special? 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Because we're all forced now to use whatever Soundcraft/Yamaha/Midas is building. Personally I really don't like the gates for drums on the Soundcraft. So, whop, another 5 inserts needed (using klark tekniks for those). Percussion, same there. Lead singers and background vocals, Art Pro MPA's, leadsingers also use voice processors. Main mix, Art Pro VLA, etc. etc. I have two D-Two's for guitars. I can go on for a while.

Offcourse, is it all nescesary? Probably not, but I like the sound, "my" bands like my sound. Personally, I don't like the digital sound. But we're already way in the future, my analog Yamaha is slowly giving up on me, so time to invest. But wtf, in what? I'm really lost. Going digital really costs a small luxury car.

I was jumping when I was working with a rented Performer 1, but didn't quite like the sound of the dynamics, in this case, it didn't matter, and anyway didn't have my trusted gear with me. Until I found out I can not connect it anyway  :-[ :-\
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Inserts on Soundcraft Expression / Performer 2
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2016, 02:06:44 pm »

Because we're all forced now to use whatever Soundcraft/Yamaha/Midas is building. Personally I really don't like the gates for drums on the Soundcraft. So, whop, another 5 inserts needed (using klark tekniks for those). Percussion, same there. Lead singers and background vocals, Art Pro MPA's, leadsingers also use voice processors. Main mix, Art Pro VLA, etc. etc. I have two D-Two's for guitars. I can go on for a while.

Offcourse, is it all nescesary? Probably not, but I like the sound, "my" bands like my sound. Personally, I don't like the digital sound. But we're already way in the future, my analog Yamaha is slowly giving up on me, so time to invest. But wtf, in what? I'm really lost. Going digital really costs a small luxury car.

I was jumping when I was working with a rented Performer 1, but didn't quite like the sound of the dynamics, in this case, it didn't matter, and anyway didn't have my trusted gear with me. Until I found out I can not connect it anyway  :-[ :-\

Have you tried a Waves Grid server and plugins to replicate this functionality?  A lot easier to transport and deploy.  Take a look at some of the Waves videos for the complex signal chains being used for some national acts.   Pretty amazing actually.

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman
River Delta Audio is now:

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
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Antoine van de Cruyssen

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Re: Inserts on Soundcraft Expression / Performer 2
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2016, 02:08:54 pm »

Hi Scott,

Never heard of it, sounds interesting, will look at it :)
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Inserts on Soundcraft Expression / Performer 2
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2016, 03:25:53 pm »

Hi Scott,

Never heard of it, sounds interesting, will look at it :)

One of my favorite.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d6mFYnhUAU
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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman
River Delta Audio is now:

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
www.ghostav.rocks

Antoine van de Cruyssen

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Re: Inserts on Soundcraft Expression / Performer 2
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2016, 03:41:32 pm »

One of my favorite.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d6mFYnhUAU

That is pretty impressive... but makes my budget again even bigger. Went from an X32, to Si Expression, to Si Performer, now looking at LS9. It's just too much...
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Inserts on Soundcraft Expression / Performer 2
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2016, 01:14:24 am »

Si Performer to an LS-9?  That's an interesting swerve.  Why?

Why do you say so expensive?  The Wavesgrid is on sale for $99.00



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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman
River Delta Audio is now:

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
www.ghostav.rocks
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