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[Ivan Beaver]

I think Ivan should answer this. 


JR

PS: Sorry I can't do that to you... since the two different amps are feeding different speakers, the tiny delay (if any) through the amps will be inconsequential. The only delay worth considering might be from how far the speaker drivers are spaced apart, but this is advanced stuff... I wouldn't worry about just yet. Get it making noise first.

The delay through a DSP amp is NOT what I would call "inconsequential"

A part of a millisecond and make a big difference in an alignment between woofer and horn. Or not.  It depends on the particular loudspeaker and the freq etc.

Some amps have a couple of ms of delay in them.

[Dave Guilford]

The delay through a DSP amp is NOT what I would call "inconsequential"

A part of a millisecond and make a big difference in an alignment between woofer and horn. Or not.  It depends on the particular loudspeaker and the freq etc.

Some amps have a couple of ms of delay in them.

Bam.  Thank you

Srx725.  HF with xls.  MF with xti.  That's what I want to do

[Ivan Beaver]

I'm ready for advanced stuff guys.  I can biamp no prob.  Just trying to find inherent delays for xti2 and xls amps.

The simplest way would be to simply measure the delay.

But of course the actual delay does not really matter.  Since you will be using delay during the "biamping process", you just add delay where it is needed to "mate up" with the other freq band.

Or are you just going to "stick in some numbers and hope it works?"

[Kevin Graf]

The delay through a DSP amp is NOT what I would call "inconsequential"

While the delay through the DSP processor (segment) might very well be long, the delay through a basic power amplifier (segment) is inconsequential.

[Dave Guilford]

The simplest way would be to simply measure the delay.

But of course the actual delay does not really matter.  Since you will be using delay during the "biamping process", you just add delay where it is needed to "mate up" with the other freq band.

Or are you just going to "stick in some numbers and hope it works?"

Well that's why I'm asking of course. 

I've biamped cheap speakers before (part necessity, part learning).  But they were cheap and for  bar gigs and the like.  Never got into delaying.  So let's talk.  Tell me how to approach setting proper delay - with or without dsp amps. 

[Matthew Knischewsky]

Well that's why I'm asking of course. 

I've biamped cheap speakers before (part necessity, part learning).  But they were cheap and for  bar gigs and the like.  Never got into delaying.  So let's talk.  Tell me how to approach setting proper delay - with or without dsp amps.

If you use the same DSP amplifiers for low and high this would be straightforward. Use the delay settings that the manufacturer recommends, then make a measurement to confirm the settings are correct.
If you use a combination of DSP amplifiers from different series (or different manufacturer) all bets are off. You'll have to measure the delay of each amplifier, use those measurements to line up the amplifiers in time with each other, then add the manufacturer's delay time to that. It's not impossible to do this there's just some extra steps and you need equipment that's able to measure the delay through an amplifier.

If you were using non DSP amps you wouldn't have to worry about this at all. In the good old days you'd have to confirm if the amps were pin 2 or pin 3 hot and compensate with a polarity reverse if necessary, but anything modern will be pin 2 hot.

Matt

[Dave Guilford]

What can I use to accurately measure?

[Ivan Beaver]

While the delay through the DSP processor (segment) might very well be long, the delay through a basic power amplifier (segment) is inconsequential.

But I am not aware of any way to bypass the DSP part of the amps he is talking about.

Do you know of a way?

[Ivan Beaver]

What can I use to accurately measure?

That is getting into a whole different discussion, tools, skill set etc.

I would look for somebody in your area who knows how to use Smaart -NOT THE RTA SECTION- or some other measurement system that can measure time.  And have them do it for you.

You can download a 30 version of Smaart-but you will have to have a proper interface to use it. 

For measuring time-any mic will work.

Hook an amp up to a speaker and put the mic at some distance-a couple of feet is fine.

Measure that delay through the system.

Now swap out amps-without changing anything else and measure again.

Subtract the difference and you have the difference in delay time of the amps

[Tim McCulloch]

What can I use to accurately measure?

Smaart, Systune, SIMM, maybe REW (have to use its own internal stimulus signal).

<sigh>

I had a detailed reply that was eaten by the dog... er computer when I hit Post.

Call Kevin Gring at Crown.  He can find the answers to your questions about i/o latency and DSP processing.  You may not need to get involved in measurement... but if you do, by the time you either hire someone or worse, invest in a Smaart rig, software and training you'd be better off just buying an amp to match what you already have.

I take it the reason for the mis-matched amps is because you already own them?

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