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[Mark Cadwallader]

Scott, if you really want to scare yourself, look at a liabilty policy where defense costs are part of the expenditure against the policy limits. Translation:  A $1,000,000 inurance policy will only pay $500,000 towards damages if it spends $500,000 in defense costs.

[Scott Holtzman]

When did you become a lawyer, Scott?

I am not but 35 years in business, countless interactions with counsel, business law glasses on the undergraduate and graduate level you pick up a little.


The bottom line is that you have a duty to act with "reasonable care" as soon as you include the fact that non-disclosure of the hazard creates economic opportunity for the person you can begin to create a "preponderance of the evidence", the test for civil liability, that the decision to not report or protect others from the hazard was done for material gain.

[Ray Aberle]

The bottom line is that you have a duty to act with "reasonable care" as soon as you include the fact that non-disclosure of the hazard creates economic opportunity for the person you can begin to create a "preponderance of the evidence", the test for civil liability, that the decision to not report or protect others from the hazard was done for material gain.

... especially now that the All-Knowing-Never-Forgetting Interwebz has this thread, and the noting/awareness of the danger... 

-Ray

[Scott Holtzman]

... especially now that the All-Knowing-Never-Forgetting Interwebz has this thread, and the noting/awareness of the danger... 

-Ray

Yeah I wasn't going to bring that up.  There is a pilot group on Facebook, it's private, you have to be asked to join.  It has taken on the tone of a confessional.  While I like the idea to freely discuss your mistakes I would rather do that with my most trusted friends.  In a hangar that has been swept for bugs.

I think this is a generation thing.  Social Media has broken down boundaries and people discuss things that our generation considered to be quite private.  As you pointed out there is exposure associated with these public outcries. 

It's a good reminder Ray, I just hope it doesn't impede the discourse.

[Ray Aberle]

There is a pilot group on Facebook, it's private, you have to be asked to join.  It has taken on the tone of a confessional.  While I like the idea to freely discuss your mistakes I would rather do that with my most trusted friends.  In a hangar that has been swept for bugs.

... So Facebook has a record of everything.... that'd worry me!

-Ray

[Jeff Lelko]

You materially benefited from the event.  You made an active choice to accept the risk.  You can't disclaim direct liability.

That's understood, but at the same time, it's not my stage and not my rigging.  Granted this was a rather extreme case, but in any situation where I'm using vendor/client supplied equipment such as a portable stage, I suppose I'm accepting some risk that the thing wasn't set up right or could collapse mid-show.  Aren't we accepting risk when we take on any live show like this?

Social Media has broken down boundaries and people discuss things that our generation considered to be quite private.  As you pointed out there is exposure associated with these public outcries. 

I'm okay with that in this case.  Had it been my stage and rigging I'd probably feel differently, but I think it's important to show that despite the high profile accidents that have happened lately these stages still do appear without a second thought given to safety.  I made my concerns very known to the group (who gave the usual "who cares" attitude).  At that point I just stayed away from it and did my job from a distance - nothing I could have said would change their mind about playing the show.  I could have walked away too, but that would have immediate damage to my reputation...not that being part of a stage collapse would have been any better.  I made what I felt to be the best compromise given the situation. 

Now, I understand that even being associated with a show that has an accident can get me caught up in a lawsuit, but seeing that this was out of my hands, how would one really prevent such a situation from occurring?  Yes, I know walking away is always an option and getting killed isn't worth any gig, but since I don't control all aspects of every job I play, there are just some things I have no say in - the stage I play on usually being one of them...

[Steve Ferreira]

Should have walked away and then called the city for an inspection. Anonymously of course,

[Tim McCulloch]

Should have walked away and then called the city for an inspection. Anonymously of course,

A surprising number of local governments do not have Code that applies to temporary demountable entertainment structures.  The best you'll find in most jurisdictions are rules governing large tents (marquees to our Brit friends).

[Jeff Lelko]

Should have walked away and then called the city for an inspection. Anonymously of course,

The thought crossed my mind, but as Tim mentioned I don't think it'd do any good.  If this were a state fair, festival, or other medium to large scale public event I might have a shot based on calling this a risk to public safety, but this concert was held at a private outdoor venue, so I doubt anyone would care.  One of these days they're going to get into royalties trouble too, but that's not my area of expertise.  I've also had to lecture this group on why you don't point ebay lasers into the crowd...or use them at all for that matter...

[Tim McCulloch]

The thought crossed my mind, but as Tim mentioned I don't think it'd do any good.  If this were a state fair, festival, or other medium to large scale public event I might have a shot based on calling this a risk to public safety, but this concert was held at a private outdoor venue, so I doubt anyone would care.  One of these days they're going to get into royalties trouble too, but that's not my area of expertise.  I've also had to lecture this group on why you don't point ebay lasers into the crowd...or use them at all for that matter...

If the county or city requires a permit to erect a commercial tent (fireworks stand, for example) then the inspectors might have been interested...  otherwise they'd say "gee, I hope nothing bad happens because we can't do anything about it until then."

[ProSoundWeb Community]