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Author Topic: Genie Lift Stage Roof?  (Read 15639 times)

Scott Holtzman

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Re: Genie Lift Stage Roof?
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2016, 03:59:11 am »

Thanks Scott, I really like it.  It's actually the Congo Kid, as opposed to the Jr. which is just the programming section with the ability to add Fader Wings as desired.  There's also a difference in the number of total outputs, but the Kid is a great sub-10k console to have in my personal inventory and is a perfect fit for the types of events I usually play.  One of the high points is that it runs the Cobalt server (which is universal across the Cobalt family), so should I be in a situation where I need more horsepower than the Kid can provide I can rent a larger Cobalt desk and still feel right at home.

You're right about the labor too - it probably would have been cheaper and easier to do it right! 

Thanks Jeff, sorry for the improper identification on the board.  It's actually the first one I have seen in the wild. 

I am not surprised it is yours and not the brain wave that put up the stage.

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Brian Jojade

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Re: Genie Lift Stage Roof?
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2016, 02:02:24 pm »

WOW, just WOW.  Was there ANYTHING about the rigging that was done right?  This is more than just a roof hung improperly from lifts. It is flat out a disaster waiting to happen.

The big concern is that if it anything does happen, since you are part of the show, you are part of the lawsuit.  If you hung ANY Lights from that mess, you are potentially liable.  If you controlled any of the lights, you might be liable too.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 05:28:53 pm by Brian Jojade »
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Brian Jojade

Tim McCulloch

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Re: Genie Lift Stage Roof?
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2016, 02:35:31 pm »

WOW, just WOW.  Was there ANYTHING about the rigging that was done right?  This is more than just a roof hung improperly from lifts. It is flat out a disaster waiting to happen.

The big concern is that if it anything does happen, since you are part of the show, you are part of the lawsuit.  If you hung ANY Lights from that mess, you are partially potentially liable.  If you controlled any of the lights, you might be liable too.


Can one do a "safe" Genie roof?  With no wind and judicious guying forces, the answer is yes with a small frame sun-shade roof and Genie ST-25 towers (they're listed by Genie for outdoor use).

That means in the real world the answer is "no, most folks can't do a safe Genie-supported roof."

Liability is ultimately determined by a court of law but my personal aversion to being a defendant sends me running from things like what is pictured.  Would Jeff be liable?  Hard to say, but consider The Station nightclub fire (the Great White pyro incident) - one of the venue's contributory factors in the deaths and injuries sustained after Great White used their pyro was the presence of "foam" used as acoustic treatment behind and above the stage.  There was a significant amount of it (the number of lbs escapes me right now) and it was not flame-retardant; it was like gasoline as a fuel source with a rapid flame spread and lots of toxic smoke.  The plaintiff's lawyers named JBL as a defendant in their suit because JBL uses "foam" as a component of their loudspeakers (cone suspension).  JBL settled for $100k because it was cheaper than hiring lawyers in R.I. and flying in expert witnesses to attempt to convince a jury or judge that 8 oz of foam that was not directly exposed to the pyro burn was not contributory to the losses sustained.  It's not always the best financial move to be "right" or innocent...

In this case I'd not attach anything to any part of the "structure".  No clamping, hanging, etc.  If it can't sit on the stage there needs to be another way to get that light up in the air without using anything from the stage provider.

That it remained standing means this unsafe stupidity will be repeated.
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Spenser Hamilton

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Re: Genie Lift Stage Roof?
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2016, 05:34:00 pm »

So as promised, here are a few pictures.

This is why I like Stagelines.
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Josh Millward

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Re: Genie Lift Stage Roof?
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2016, 06:06:45 pm »

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Danley Sound Labs

Jeff Lelko

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Re: Genie Lift Stage Roof?
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2016, 08:32:47 pm »

Thanks Jeff, sorry for the improper identification on the board.  It's actually the first one I have seen in the wild. 

I am not surprised it is yours and not the brain wave that put up the stage.

Oh no worries Scott.  That's not the best picture I could have taken either!  You're right that the Congo/Cobalt boards aren't as prevalent the Eos Series consoles, particularly the Element and Ion, but they have a use.  Back when I was console shopping I demoed the Congo against the Element and Ion (both of which I'd had prior experience with), and for what I wanted the Cobalt server was the clear winner.  It's definitely not a beginner board for a number of reasons and one of these days I'll write a detailed review about it, but where the console really shines is in situations exactly like this - a bring your own board event where I have only a few hours to patch into a system I've never used, program some spectacular effects, and then busk the concert with a band that can't play the same song the same way twice!   

WOW, just WOW.  Was there ANYTHING about the rigging that was done right? 

No, and I forgot to take pictures of the missing legs on the Genie lifts too...  The whole thing also made this wonderful groaning noise every time the wind blew. 

In this case I'd not attach anything to any part of the "structure".  No clamping, hanging, etc.  If it can't sit on the stage there needs to be another way to get that light up in the air without using anything from the stage provider.

And that's the approach I took with this - try to avoid touching anything that I didn't absolutely have to.  The group wasn't happy when I refused to help them raise the lifts and adjust the come-alongs holding everything in place.  Of course we were on our own with no on-site support from the stage vendor either.   

That it remained standing means this unsafe stupidity will be repeated.

That's the sad truth of the matter, which is why I took pictures to share.  Maybe other groups will see this and be more selective of the stages they accept as safe to play on!

So since we're on the topic of liability spreading from the use of trussing supplied by other vendors, how do the rest of you handle that?  I usually just do the standard release of liability, hold-harmless, and financial reimbursement agreements/contracts as necessary when using my equipment on other people's trussing. 
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Spenser Hamilton

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Re: Genie Lift Stage Roof?
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2016, 09:51:25 pm »

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Technical Director - Chatham Capitol Theatre/Kiwanis Theatre

Mark Cadwallader

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Re: Genie Lift Stage Roof?
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2016, 01:01:07 am »

(Snip)

So since we're on the topic of liability spreading from the use of trussing supplied by other vendors, how do the rest of you handle that?  I usually just do the standard release of liability, hold-harmless, and financial reimbursement agreements/contracts as necessary when using my equipment on other people's trussing.

Unless you verify that appropriate and adequate insurance is in place, all the paperwork you have doesn't mean squat.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Genie Lift Stage Roof?
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2016, 01:49:16 am »

If you want to scare the crap out of yourself read up on the concept of comparative negligence.

You materially benefited from the event.  You made an active choice to accept the risk.  You can't disclaim direct liability.  y

I am glad that no harm came to anyone.   I would think twice about doing it again. 

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Genie Lift Stage Roof?
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2016, 10:57:03 am »

If you want to scare the crap out of yourself read up on the concept of comparative negligence.

You materially benefited from the event.  You made an active choice to accept the risk.  You can't disclaim direct liability.  y

I am glad that no harm came to anyone.   I would think twice about doing it again.

When did you become a lawyer, Scott?

Just because a party benefits from a situation where a loss occurred doesn't put them on the same level of liability as the party that hired/caused the loss/had the direct ability to stop the situation that caused the loss.

Make no mistake, though, if a loss occurs *everyone* connected to the event, instance, venue, etc will be named as a defendant in the lawsuit.  It's up to the court to determine if the suit proceeds against any particular named party.

As I pointed out earlier, just because you didn't do anything that actually caused the loss or contributed to the loss in any realistic way doesn't mean you get off the hook.  This is where your insurance comes in - to defend you and settle if it's in their (not your) interest to do so.
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

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Re: Genie Lift Stage Roof?
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2016, 10:57:03 am »


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