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Author Topic: Presonus,Peavey,Crown, Looking for advice  (Read 19327 times)

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Presonus,Peavey,Crown, Looking for advice
« Reply #120 on: December 12, 2016, 07:37:45 am »



A quick and rough list of pro's and con's to a line array:

Pro's---------------------------

1. If properly deployed, can have even, smooth coverage over the desired listening area.

2. If long enough, it can have enough directional control over enough frequencies over distance and beat the inverse square law.


As many already know-I disagree with those statements, and it has been proven time and time again.

1: In many cases a proper "1 source" system will provide a more even freq response across a given area.

Assuming you are talking about the ratio of the freq response from the front to the rear,  and having the same sound without hotspots

Yes there are a number "it depends".

2: If the "beats inverse square law" actually happened, then how come demos and installs in large spaces yield better results when using a proper  "1 source" system?

In reality the line array starts to fall apart over distance-NOT hold together as marketing would like for you to believe.

And especially when the wind starts to blow.  Because of all the different sources, the temp gradients cause the phase to change from cabinet to cabinet, causing the signal level to drop and appear to "blow around".

And you cannot use the idea of "adjusting the angles of the cabinets and shading levels in the same context of inverse square law.

The idea of lower drop over distance of inverse square ONLY applies when all the elements are facing the same direction and getting the same signal.

As soon as you change either one of those, the whole idea of "coupling" goes out the window.

You can't have both-at least at the same time.

It is a HUGE misconception that a "1 source" box will not have coverage because it obeys inverse square law dropoff (6dB/doubling of distance).

That is true if you are looking at the on axis coverage of the cabinet.

But when you put it in the air (in the same place as hanging a line array), the closer people will be off axis, so the level will be lower for them (than at the same distance on axis)-while the far people will be on axis and maintain the same level.

So the front to back level can actually be THE SAME if the mounting height is decent and the proper cabinet is chosen.

There is a big difference between reality and "pretty marketing drawings".





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Ivan Beaver
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Tom Roche

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Re: Presonus,Peavey,Crown, Looking for advice
« Reply #121 on: December 12, 2016, 01:51:05 pm »

A friend of mine bought a Peavey Versarray 112 rig consisting of six boxes per side, four Versarray 218 subs, Peavey amps to biamp the tops and power the subs, two Peavey processors (set by a Peavey engineer), and a pair of the Peavey Vermette lifts.  He was in it $45k.  I ran the system a couple of times, outdoors and in an indoor venue, and thought it sounded fairly good, though not impressive.

When I considered the price & performance of the Peavey system and compared it to a QSC HPR system (pair of 153 and 18 subs), it was a helluva lot more money for NOT a great deal more performance.  Yes, it was noticeable, but not for 10x the cost.  If I were in the market for something along these lines, I'd look at Danley or similar.  Save a lot of money, easier transport and deployment, and likely much better sound.
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Luke Geis

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Re: Presonus,Peavey,Crown, Looking for advice
« Reply #122 on: December 12, 2016, 05:08:58 pm »

To be more upfront, I am not a fan of LA systems and too also believe they cannot and do not stand up to the hype. However, they are a tool that when used properly, can be very good at what it does do. The problem is that the cost associated with getting a truly capable LA system and having the resources and help needed to properly deploy one is challenging. I have set a few up and I have seen and heard many more. I have never heard one that has impressed me so much that I felt I needed one.

I am in the camp of less is more. If I can do a show with 2 speakers and provide a better service than the guy bringing in 6 speakers, I am a happy camper. The size of a PA is not an indicator of ability, output and quality of sound; it is more an indicator of the mentality that the owner carries with it. A single source is ideal if you want sonic quality to be the leading factor in your sound.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Presonus,Peavey,Crown, Looking for advice
« Reply #123 on: December 12, 2016, 05:30:47 pm »

To be more upfront, I am not a fan of LA systems and too also believe they cannot and do not stand up to the hype. However, they are a tool that when used properly, can be very good at what it does do. The problem is that the cost associated with getting a truly capable LA system and having the resources and help needed to properly deploy one is challenging. I have set a few up and I have seen and heard many more. I have never heard one that has impressed me so much that I felt I needed one.

I am in the camp of less is more. If I can do a show with 2 speakers and provide a better service than the guy bringing in 6 speakers, I am a happy camper. The size of a PA is not an indicator of ability, output and quality of sound; it is more an indicator of the mentality that the owner carries with it. A single source is ideal if you want sonic quality to be the leading factor in your sound.

If you can find and keep a market segment on quality-based clients it's a great and lovely thing.  There's a lot more than speakers that go into that equation.

While I like less-is-more, my clients like to pay me for bringing what they think they need/want.  For some it can be L-I-M, others want suspended bananas.  We try to give our clients multiple opportunities to give us money but right now they prefer bananas about 70/30.

The timing question is *when* will the pendulum swing back?  DSL thinks "now is good" and Tom is designing stuff that uses a whole bunch of components that work as a single source; it's brilliant but the bulk of the live, portable market isn't there yet.  The really big players in live audio either roll their own (Clair) or pick top-end systems from the big boy names (and some shops now field 3 or more brands) to meet the preferences of the BEs/SEs who specify/design touring systems for their artist.  Ultimately, when the shift happens in live, portable use it will be the accountants that instigate the change.  The Prism« style systems got the boot in favor of line arrays due to size - transportation, sight lines, etc.  The same thing could happen to line arrays.

IMHO it will take a couple of major manufacturers to bring competing products to the table before the live portable market will take notice.
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Re: Presonus,Peavey,Crown, Looking for advice
┬ź Reply #123 on: December 12, 2016, 05:30:47 pm ┬╗


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