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Author Topic: Compact DMX controller for band use  (Read 16238 times)

Dan Reavey

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Re: Compact DMX controller for band use
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2016, 09:01:11 am »

Well........ if you play the tunes the same way every time you play them, then I'd suggest putting the drummer on click, and then you can have a fully scripted lightshow against a live band.

If that's too much, then the next best thing is someone in the band gets to be the person with the footswitch that advances the cuelist every verse and chorus.  When they get it right it can look great, and if they screw up, the you'll get the wrong look, and probably almost no-one outside the band will notice.

Redsound make (or perhaps - made, their website looks a lot lacking at the moment) boxes that convert music to MIDI clock, which can drive chases and the like in time to the music.  I still use a Redsound Voyager for this purpose, a tool from some years ago!   

Youtube video demoing the general idea.

Thanks, useful stuff.
The drummer on click is out really. The flexibility of being able to add another round of solos or extend an intro takes priority over the lighting.

The person on the footswitch is me. The others in the band are very untechnical and they just wouldn't able to do it well.
I could try selecting a different static scene on each verse/bridge/chorus
but feel that may get too much with playing two keyboards and adjusting
monitor mixes.

The Redsound device looks pretty clever. If the laptop with a DMXIS interface, a Redsound box and a Roland UM-1 Midi/USB cable all works
without a hitch, it could well replace my Scene Setter.
I'm a little concerned about all the seperate units though. I can visual problems and when time is tight, as is sometimes the case, it needs to be switch on and go.


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David Buckley

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Re: Compact DMX controller for band use
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2016, 05:17:23 am »

The person on the footswitch is me. The others in the band are very untechnical and they just wouldn't able to do it well.

Here's a trick for you.  Get the drummer one of those electronic eight-pad things, make the top four pads sound like a crash, and label them as verse / chorus / solo / special or whatever.  Ask the drummer to integrate that crash (or an alternative sound that fits his style) into his work rather than the traditional binlid.  Then you've got the band's rythmist helping out with lighting timing things.  Of course, this assumes you've got PA and monitoring that allows electronic percussion instruments to be a viable part of the gig.  And it also assumes you've got some MIDI and instrument chops, a job that usually falls to the keyboard player :)  Getting the MIDI pad to output one thing and sound like another can be a challenge, a challenge that I've always solved by using an external sound module, that can map any MIDI note to any sound.  Pads with integrated sound generators sometimes can't manage this level of sophistication. 

Once the drummer is in on the party, they will often push for more.  More what?  More everything, more control, more sounds, more, more more.

I could try selecting a different static scene on each verse/bridge/chorus  but feel that may get too much with playing two keyboards and adjusting monitor mixes. .....  I can visual problems and when time is tight, as is sometimes the case, it needs to be switch on and go.

The answer to both of this issues is workload management, before and during the show.  I like the British army proverb, the six P's - Planning and Preparation prevents Piss Poor Performance.  If you get overloaded, the show will suffer, one way or another, and then its stops being fun.
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Dan Reavey

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Re: Compact DMX controller for band use
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2016, 08:19:07 am »

Here's a trick for you.  Get the drummer one of those electronic eight-pad things, make the top four pads sound like a crash, and label them as verse / chorus / solo / special or whatever.  Ask the drummer to integrate that crash (or an alternative sound that fits his style) into his work rather than the traditional binlid.  Then you've got the band's rythmist helping out with lighting timing things.  Of course, this assumes you've got PA and monitoring that allows electronic percussion instruments to be a viable part of the gig.  And it also assumes you've got some MIDI and instrument chops, a job that usually falls to the keyboard player :)  Getting the MIDI pad to output one thing and sound like another can be a challenge, a challenge that I've always solved by using an external sound module, that can map any MIDI note to any sound.  Pads with integrated sound generators sometimes can't manage this level of sophistication. 

Great ideas.
We have a Roland SPD20 percussion pad that the drummer's used in the past for timbales, thunder effects etc.. . but it's just one extra bit of gear, so we don't use it.
Not sure what midi info it sends or whether it would work with our Scene Setter (midi note) but that solution wouldn't cost anything.
PA and monitoring is not a problem. That's where all the money's gone.


The answer to both of this issues is workload management, before and during the show.  I like the British army proverb, the six P's - Planning and Preparation prevents Piss Poor Performance.  If you get overloaded, the show will suffer, one way or another, and then its stops being fun.

Very true. Musically we're experienced and well prepared. PA wise, I research, buy, setup and run this.
Lighting is ample but control is very basic- Sound to light, that's it. Blackout if I can reach the SFC1 hand controller in time :(
So, yes I'm certainly overloaded before and during the gig. 
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Rob Gow

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Re: Compact DMX controller for band use
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2016, 03:49:11 pm »

I run the lights in my band using DMXIS  and an FCB1010 controller. I programmed 100 scenes, and I have them organized in banks of 10.

1:verse
2:verse
3:chorus
4:chorus
5:solo
6:solo
7:solo
8:end small
9:end medium
10:end big

10 banks of 10 scenes. I set up the 2 "volume" pedals like this. The left volume pedal controls the front lights on the band, so I can bring us into silhouette for effect. The other volume pedal controls the hazer.

http://youtu.be/3uiLBx0XC-U

I now use a pair of ADJ Fog Fury Jetts for a pyro effect. So I've changed the scenes a bit. Now banks 6 and 8 have the lights in the band turned out, for the silhouette effect and the left hand "volume" pedal controls the fog fury Jetts.

http://youtu.be/pzGkdz6LM_E
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Bob Charest

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Re: Compact DMX controller for band use
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2016, 07:03:16 pm »

I run the lights in my band using DMXIS  and an FCB1010 controller. I programmed 100 scenes, and I have them organized in banks of 10.

1:verse
2:verse
3:chorus
4:chorus
5:solo
6:solo
7:solo
8:end small
9:end medium
10:end big

10 banks of 10 scenes. I set up the 2 "volume" pedals like this. The left volume pedal controls the front lights on the band, so I can bring us into silhouette for effect. The other volume pedal controls the hazer.

http://youtu.be/3uiLBx0XC-U

I now use a pair of ADJ Fog Fury Jetts for a pyro effect. So I've changed the scenes a bit. Now banks 6 and 8 have the lights in the band turned out, for the silhouette effect and the left hand "volume" pedal controls the fog fury Jetts.

http://youtu.be/pzGkdz6LM_E

Hi Rob,

Sound great! I tried to look at the youtube videos, but they wouldn't load. Clicking on the option to learn more produced the message that youtube couldn't locate the content.

I s there another way to locate the videos? Maybe the band's youtube channel?

Thanks,
Bob Charest
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Rob Gow

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Re: Compact DMX controller for band use
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2016, 08:42:00 pm »

Hi Rob,

Sound great! I tried to look at the youtube videos, but they wouldn't load. Clicking on the option to learn more produced the message that youtube couldn't locate the content.

I s there another way to locate the videos? Maybe the band's youtube channel?


Thanks,
Bob Charest

That's strange. It works here. Go to YouTube & search "robare99 wolf cam ch" for the first one, and "robare99 wolf TNT 60th" for the other one. There's tons of videos on my channel. I think over 600
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Dan Reavey

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Re: Compact DMX controller for band use
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2016, 06:22:29 am »

I run the lights in my band using DMXIS  and an FCB1010 controller. I programmed 100 scenes, and I have them organized in banks of 10.

1:verse
2:verse
3:chorus
4:chorus
5:solo
6:solo
7:solo
8:end small
9:end medium
10:end big

10 banks of 10 scenes. I set up the 2 "volume" pedals like this. The left volume pedal controls the front lights on the band, so I can bring us into silhouette for effect. The other volume pedal controls the hazer.

http://youtu.be/3uiLBx0XC-U

I now use a pair of ADJ Fog Fury Jetts for a pyro effect. So I've changed the scenes a bit. Now banks 6 and 8 have the lights in the band turned out, for the silhouette effect and the left hand "volume" pedal controls the fog fury Jetts.

http://youtu.be/pzGkdz6LM_E

Impressive stuff.
YouTube links work fine.
I've been programming scenes and chases into my Scene Setter and then  experimenting by triggering scenes using one of my keyboards.
No good this way for live use though hence foot pedal needed.

There is a problem though with midi note and my Mega TriPar Profiles.

My ADJ  LEDS can be set to anything from 1 channel to 7 channels.
My Transcension Scene Setter is 24 channels so no shortage there.
On channel 7 of the Mega TriPar for instance, various programs are available on the 0-255 range and a scene can be saved.  Sound Active modes are in the 240-255 range.
The Mega TriPar will then work as saved when triggered from the desk.

When triggering the scene via midi note on my keyboard, the Mega TriPar
doesn't respond the same as when triggered from the desk.
It's probably the 7 bit midi to DMX problem.

I'd like to able to make use of the 7 channel mode on the LEDs but it seems like it's not going to work when triggered using midi note from a foot controller (FCB1010 or MFC10).
I'd imagine that these foot controllers are 7 bit only.

This from the DMXIS manual mentions the midi compatibility issue:

'MIDI CC and Note messages have a resolution of 7 bits, (0-127). The resolution of a single DMX channel is 8 bits (0-255). Therefore, if you control DMXIS using MIDI CCs or Notes, you will not get the full resolution available. This could manifest itself as jerky movements of scanners & moving heads, for example.'

I guess with DMXIS, there's no need to use the LED auto modes as it can all be setup in the software.
There is a useful slow colour scroll mode on the Mega TriPar that won't work from midi note.
There's no programmable fade on the Scene Setter so this mode is useful.
Also the Strobing function doesn't trigger the same speed as set. 






« Last Edit: November 07, 2016, 06:48:41 am by Dan Reavey »
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Bob Charest

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Re: Compact DMX controller for band use
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2016, 09:11:48 am »

That's strange. It works here. Go to YouTube & search "robare99 wolf cam ch" for the first one, and "robare99 wolf TNT 60th" for the other one. There's tons of videos on my channel. I think over 600
Hi Rob - I solved my YouTube problem. Once I tried with Firefox and it worked I knew the problem was local. I usually use IE11, and it was in need of an update for Adobe Flash. That wasn't the message I got though, so it took a bit to figure it out.

Best regards,
Bob
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Rob Gow

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Re: Compact DMX controller for band use
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2016, 02:39:06 pm »

Impressive stuff.
YouTube links work fine.
I've been programming scenes and chases into my Scene Setter and then  experimenting by triggering scenes using one of my keyboards.
No good this way for live use though hence foot pedal needed.

There is a problem though with midi note and my Mega TriPar Profiles.

My ADJ  LEDS can be set to anything from 1 channel to 7 channels.
My Transcension Scene Setter is 24 channels so no shortage there.
On channel 7 of the Mega TriPar for instance, various programs are available on the 0-255 range and a scene can be saved.  Sound Active modes are in the 240-255 range.
The Mega TriPar will then work as saved when triggered from the desk.

When triggering the scene via midi note on my keyboard, the Mega TriPar
doesn't respond the same as when triggered from the desk.
It's probably the 7 bit midi to DMX problem.

I'd like to able to make use of the 7 channel mode on the LEDs but it seems like it's not going to work when triggered using midi note from a foot controller (FCB1010 or MFC10).
I'd imagine that these foot controllers are 7 bit only.

This from the DMXIS manual mentions the midi compatibility issue:

'MIDI CC and Note messages have a resolution of 7 bits, (0-127). The resolution of a single DMX channel is 8 bits (0-255). Therefore, if you control DMXIS using MIDI CCs or Notes, you will not get the full resolution available. This could manifest itself as jerky movements of scanners & moving heads, for example.'

I guess with DMXIS, there's no need to use the LED auto modes as it can all be setup in the software.
There is a useful slow colour scroll mode on the Mega TriPar that won't work from midi note.
There's no programmable fade on the Scene Setter so this mode is useful.
Also the Strobing function doesn't trigger the same speed as set.

DMIXS uses oscillators for everything from moving heads to scanners to dimmers to colors etc. The movement with scanners and moving heads has always been smooth. You don't keyframe everything into chases. Instead you start with an oscillator.

Start by setting each mover to a different DMX address that doesn't interfere with the other movers. This way they are all independent. By double clicking the tilt fader it will choose the tilt fader on all of the same labelled fixtures. Then you can make the moving heads all move up and down, in an even sine wave, 20% movement, taking 4 measures, overall beat running at 120bpm.

So that's one channel. Now the heads are all moving up and down together. Using the offset control it will stagger the movement into different patterns. Do the same for the pan slider as well if you want.

It works really well. Same with dimmers etc.
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Dan Reavey

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Re: Compact DMX controller for band use
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2016, 04:51:00 pm »

DMIXS uses oscillators for everything from moving heads to scanners to dimmers to colors etc. The movement with scanners and moving heads has always been smooth. You don't keyframe everything into chases. Instead you start with an oscillator.

Start by setting each mover to a different DMX address that doesn't interfere with the other movers. This way they are all independent. By double clicking the tilt fader it will choose the tilt fader on all of the same labelled fixtures. Then you can make the moving heads all move up and down, in an even sine wave, 20% movement, taking 4 measures, overall beat running at 120bpm.

So that's one channel. Now the heads are all moving up and down together. Using the offset control it will stagger the movement into different patterns. Do the same for the pan slider as well if you want.

It works really well. Same with dimmers etc.

Thanks.
So with all those lights and movement on the 'TNT' clip, I guess there's no need for sound activated lighting.
We do have 2 moving heads and a Martin Ego 3 but they rarely get taken out
due to transportation and lack of technical help.
Because of this, our lights are pretty much for flood and stage wash use hence the reliance on sound activation.
I probably wouldn't miss it though if I bought the DMXIS bundle and laptop as I could setup some nice colour fades and transitions.
With my Scene Setter, there's no programmable fade.

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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Compact DMX controller for band use
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2016, 04:51:00 pm »


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