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Author Topic: Comms through a digital stage box?  (Read 3200 times)

Rob Bernstein

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Comms through a digital stage box?
« on: September 28, 2016, 09:56:55 pm »

Not sure if this is possible, but figured I'd ask.
I'm running an A&H GLD-80 with a digital stage box via Cat5 cable.
I am also running a dedicated XLR cable from FOH to stage for comms system (which sends power to the stage unit through the XLR).
Is there a way to run the comms through the console somehow to avoid having to run that single XLR to the stage?
I don't think so, but worth a post.
Thanks!
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Cailen Waddell

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Re: Comms through a digital stage box?
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2016, 10:04:32 pm »

Sure there is.  Power supplies for com on each end, and 4 wire com interfaces...  I suppose on the GLD80 end you will need an input and a mix send for the com on console side....


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Mac Kerr

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Re: Comms through a digital stage box?
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2016, 10:15:54 pm »

Sure there is.  Power supplies for com on each end, and 4 wire com interfaces...  I suppose on the GLD80 end you will need an input and a mix send for the com on console side....

You need 2 inputs and 2 direct outs. Plus two 4W adapters and 2 power supplies. It's a lot less expensive and probably easier to just run the XLR. I do just that for 14 channels of comm on the Clinton Global Initiative meeting.

Mac
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Cailen Waddell

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Re: Comms through a digital stage box?
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2016, 07:59:53 am »

You need 2 inputs and 2 direct outs. Plus two 4W adapters and 2 power supplies. It's a lot less expensive and probably easier to just run the XLR. I do just that for 14 channels of comm on the Clinton Global Initiative meeting.

Mac

Yes - sorry I didn't describe that clearly, and of course you are correct. 


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Scott Helmke

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Re: Comms through a digital stage box?
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2016, 10:04:13 am »

Are you running just one Cat5e cable, or a multicore?  We use 4-core cables and run analog com on one of the spares w/ adapter boxes. You can't hang very many beltpacks off the other side, but it works fine.
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Rob Bernstein

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Re: Comms through a digital stage box?
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2016, 11:54:11 am »

Are you running just one Cat5e cable, or a multicore?  We use 4-core cables and run analog com on one of the spares w/ adapter boxes. You can't hang very many beltpacks off the other side, but it works fine.
Just running a single Cat5 right now.
Need to play with it a bit but sounds like I could use some of the spare channels and aux outs if I have another power supply.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Comms through a digital stage box?
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2016, 12:12:28 pm »

Just running a single Cat5 right now.
Need to play with it a bit but sounds like I could use some of the spare channels and aux outs if I have another power supply.

You need the 4 wire interfaces, too. Eliminating the XLR run will be expensive and not confer and special benefits.
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Comms through a digital stage box?
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2016, 12:12:46 pm »

Just running a single Cat5 right now.
Need to play with it a bit but sounds like I could use some of the spare channels and aux outs if I have another power supply.

Yes and no. Comms are often run in 4 wire mode on large events. As I mentioned earlier I have an annual event where I run 14 channels of comms through a Dante network, but there is more involved than another power supply. For each channel of 2 wire comms, ClearCom, RTS, or any compatible, you need a send audio path and a return path. You also need, at each end, a 2 wire to 4 wire converter to change the 4 wire balanced audio send and return pair back into a 2 wire common talk/listen bus unbalanced system like ClearCom or RTS. On the 2 wire side of each of those 2 converters you need a local power supply to power the belt packs. Where you now have a single power supply that powers all your packs, and a single XLR to run to the stage, you will need 2 power supplies, 2 4 wire converters, and 2 channels in your digital snake, one in each direction.

In the case of the show I do it on it would be very troublesome to connect everything via the unbalanced powered comm lines. We are pulling power from all over the building and we have no copper infrastructure between floors. We have plenty of fiber, and a Dante network that goes everywhere, and we are interfacing with a Riedel comms matrix that is already a 4 wire system.. It is much better for us to put the 4 wire converters at the far end and run balanced line level through the network to the Riedel than to run analog cable and interface in the control room.

In your case you are talking about a single XLR, less than 100m long that runs along with the CAT5 for your digital snake. Before I went out and spent many hundreds of dollars on the gear to eliminate one XLR cable, I'd tape an XLR to your CAT5 and run the bundle as a unit. I'd probably also tape in at least 1 additional CAT5 and maybe another XLR as back up.

Mac
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Pete Erskine

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Re: Comms through a digital stage box?
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2016, 02:04:14 pm »

Not sure if this is possible, but figured I'd ask.
I'm running an A&H GLD-80 with a digital stage box via Cat5 cable.
I am also running a dedicated XLR cable from FOH to stage for comms system (which sends power to the stage unit through the XLR).
Is there a way to run the comms through the console somehow to avoid having to run that single XLR to the stage?
I don't think so, but worth a post.
Thanks!


Here is a way to run beltpack comms over digital mults without any hybrids.  It also has the advantage of having an unlimited number of drops in different locations with no nulling or Hybrids.  You need to have a local power supply and an RTS audio only box.  Each location can have a local talk channel and a system wide channel.  I used this on a show which had a dozen breakout rooms which all were connected by fiber.

I was interfacing to a Riedel system and each 4-wire connected to a common PL so they could all hear.  Same thing could be done by mix-minus-ing all the talks together.  Don't send the audio from a location back to itself.

If all you want is one bp on each end, then just send the talk from one into the listen of the other and vice versa.

No Hybrid 4-wire interface
to RTS

« Last Edit: September 29, 2016, 02:10:39 pm by Pete Erskine »
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DavidTurner

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Re: Comms through a digital stage box?
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2016, 07:58:23 pm »


Yes and no. Comms are often run in 4 wire mode on large events. As I mentioned earlier I have an annual event where I run 14 channels of comms through a Dante network, but there is more involved than another power supply. For each channel of 2 wire comms, ClearCom, RTS, or any compatible, you need a send audio path and a return path. You also need, at each end, a 2 wire to 4 wire converter to change the 4 wire balanced audio send and return pair back into a 2 wire common talk/listen bus unbalanced system like ClearCom or RTS. On the 2 wire side of each of those 2 converters you need a local power supply to power the belt packs. Where you now have a single power supply that powers all your packs, and a single XLR to run to the stage, you will need 2 power supplies, 2 4 wire converters, and 2 channels in your digital snake, one in each direction.

In the case of the show I do it on it would be very troublesome to connect everything via the unbalanced powered comm lines. We are pulling power from all over the building and we have no copper infrastructure between floors. We have plenty of fiber, and a Dante network that goes everywhere, and we are interfacing with a Riedel comms matrix that is already a 4 wire system.. It is much better for us to put the 4 wire converters at the far end and run balanced line level through the network to the Riedel than to run analog cable and interface in the control room.

In your case you are talking about a single XLR, less than 100m long that runs along with the CAT5 for your digital snake. Before I went out and spent many hundreds of dollars on the gear to eliminate one XLR cable, I'd tape an XLR to your CAT5 and run the bundle as a unit. I'd probably also tape in at least 1 additional CAT5 and maybe another XLR as back up.

Mac
This is exactly what we do
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Re: Comms through a digital stage box?
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2016, 07:58:23 pm »


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