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Author Topic: Delay Finder app?  (Read 4740 times)

Woody Nuss

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Delay Finder app?
« on: September 13, 2016, 03:45:37 pm »

A buddy of mine does DJ gigs and social events and was asking about setting delay times for distributed speakers. He is not going to buy and learn smaart. Is there a phone app for this? He has the ability to set delays, he just needs help in determining the correct timing.
I told him to get a simple digital metronome device to use as a source. Any tricks to share?
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Scott Carneval

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Re: Delay Finder app?
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2016, 04:09:29 pm »

A buddy of mine does DJ gigs and social events and was asking about setting delay times for distributed speakers. He is not going to buy and learn smaart. Is there a phone app for this? He has the ability to set delays, he just needs help in determining the correct timing.
I told him to get a simple digital metronome device to use as a source. Any tricks to share?

I'm not sure of any app for doing this, short of the Studio Six stuff which requires an external interface.

I would suggest getting something with a really fast transient, such as a snare hit, and putting it on a loop. If he has any sort of ear for mixing he should be able to determine which speaker is ahead and needs to be delayed. From there it's pretty easy to just experiment with the time until you get it close enough.
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Corey Scogin

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Re: Delay Finder app?
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2016, 04:14:15 pm »

The simplest solution is to estimate or walk off the distance in feet and add that many milliseconds. Listen and adjust as needed.

As Scott mentioned...
On iOS, the AudioTools suite has a DelayFinder app.  I haven't used it so I'm not sure how well it works but the other apps in the suite work well so I expect this one will too. It'll take some specific cabling and possibly an interface to make it work.
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Keith Broughton

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Re: Delay Finder app?
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2016, 04:21:53 pm »

The simplest solution is to estimate or walk off the distance in feet and add that many milliseconds. Listen and adjust as needed.


I do pretty much the same thing for a quick and easy place to start.
Roughly .8 ms per foot.
No "app" required  ;)
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Frederik Rosenkjær

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Re: Delay Finder app?
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2016, 04:55:31 pm »

Unless you're tuning the whole system for one seat there's not much point in breaking out measurement systems for something like aligning delay boxes, since the distances are going to vary from seat to seat/position to position anyways...
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: Delay Finder app?
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2016, 05:13:12 pm »

I do have the Studio Six app including the Transfer Function which has a delay finder.  I've yet to try it indoors but it is quick and accurate outdoors using a music source.  I mainly use it for setting the top to sub delay depending on how things work best in a set up.  Rather than work from the phase trace, I just play a low tone, measure the delay, play something through the tops, get the difference and adjust the tops which nominally have to be a bit behind the horn loaded subs.

As said, I need to use an interface for the dual channel Transfer Function app.  I have the Focusrite  iTrack solo, which does need a separate USB power source.  They do sell interfaces that run off the iPad battery but since you have to be plugged into the board for the transfer function bit to work, having a hardwire power doesn't create any restrictions.  I have the SPL, RTA and FFT functions on my phone if I want.

It's pretty solid at being turned off and on and disconnected.  I use the iPad to walk around and check the mix using the board's app, and then returning to FOH plug it back in and launch the Transfer Function app.
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George Dougherty

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Re: Delay Finder app?
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2016, 11:24:53 pm »

A buddy of mine does DJ gigs and social events and was asking about setting delay times for distributed speakers. He is not going to buy and learn smaart. Is there a phone app for this? He has the ability to set delays, he just needs help in determining the correct timing.
I told him to get a simple digital metronome device to use as a source. Any tricks to share?

Actually, I believe you can use the AudioTools delay finder acceptably well with just the built-in mic.  AudioTools is iOS only so if he's on Android that's not a help.  It is however, one of the major reasons other than availability of apps and the reliability of the device itself that keeps me in the Apple world.
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: Delay Finder app?
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2016, 11:40:26 pm »

Actually, I believe you can use the AudioTools delay finder acceptably well with just the built-in mic.  AudioTools is iOS only so if he's on Android that's not a help.  It is however, one of the major reasons other than availability of apps and the reliability of the device itself that keeps me in the Apple world.
Yes,  I just looked and there is a separate delay finder in the basic speaker tools along with the polarity test.  It outputs a click and measures the time.  Tried it through the monitors in my project studio and it works pretty solidly.
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Rob Spence

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Re: Delay Finder app?
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2016, 01:05:48 am »

The simplest solution is to estimate or walk off the distance in feet and add that many milliseconds. Listen and adjust as needed.

I do this with a wireless mic and make clicking sounds as I walk. I ask a helper to change the delay until the image moves to the front.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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Kevin Maxwell

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Re: Delay Finder app?
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2016, 10:48:47 am »

Unless you're tuning the whole system for one seat there's not much point in breaking out measurement systems for something like aligning delay boxes, since the distances are going to vary from seat to seat/position to position anyways...

I use Smaart and is so easy to time align the speakers to the stage with it that I use it for that whenever dealing with delays. Notice I didn’t say to the mains. Is it prefect for every seat? No, but it gets you close enough and very quickly. I used to have to do it with someone on stage that would make a snap at the mic. I would try to hear the snap sound become one with the house and delays. It took so much more time than it does now with Smaart. Also we didn’t have all of the delays built into so much of the gear as it is now. I use delay speakers in various situations and when everything is time aligned to the stage I get a much smoother sound. Details available on request.

To the OP if you use a prerecorded impulse sound make it long enough between impulses so you know you are responding to the one you want. It is also a good idea to have a sequence of 3 spaced out different impulses repeated far enough apart that they don’t accidently overlay in the timing. If you do it right it will sound like a single snap when dialed in at just about anywhere in your coverage pattern unless your speaker placements are really out of whack.

The problem with properly dialed in delay speakers is if they are not in someone’s face (if you know what I mean) the audience will think they are off. They will hear the sound coming from the front and not realize that the delays are on. I was working with a church that would have really benefited from delays to cover the balcony but the music leader was dead set against them because in his previous church they had delays and he keep getting complaints that they weren’t on. They were on and doing what they were supposed to do but they were set up right and it just sounded like the sound was coming from the front. Because of this mindset of the audience I like to hide the delays in an install if that is possible. I have gone thru the trouble of demonstrating to some people how well they are working by turning the different parts of the speaker system on and  off and they then realize that they are working the way they are supposed to.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Delay Finder app?
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2016, 10:48:47 am »


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