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Author Topic: Airport Express or Extreme?  (Read 4532 times)

Lyle Williams

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Re: Airport Express or Extreme?
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2016, 05:44:36 pm »

A spare should be identical.  It should be pre-configured.  You should not care whether the original or spare is in service.  If something breaks during or just before a show, that will create a crisis, and with it an absence of clear thinking.  You must be able to return your system to a functional state with a minimum of thinking in a minimum amount of time.

Amateur hour is when people collect and carry random parts because the parts seem cool.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Airport Express or Extreme?
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2016, 05:53:55 pm »

I'm sorry that so many of us "amateurs" are supporting our families (and in some cases the families of others) by satisfying our client's needs in a way that makes you uneasy.

Do I mix entire shows wirelessly? Never. Do I use my wireless mixing capabilities to make system tests and soundchecks go much faster? Yes. Do I use my wireless mixing capabilities to allow my clients to sell an extra $10k table or two to support their fundraiser? Absolutely.

Am I an "amateur"? By some standards, I guess I must be.

Hey Milt, I get it.  And I bet you don't use the wireless as your sole, exclusive means of SHOWTIME control either...

If a wireless mixing failure hoses that big ass fundraiser, guess who ain't coming back next year?  That's how we get gigs for more money than our competitors charge, we deliver results not excuses.  We don't do bar gigs and seldom do wedding receptions; we're not scaled that way.  We do a fair bit of fundraising and corporate work and some of those accounts are decades old for a reason.

As I've said in other threads, if one can sleep at night knowing the fragility of the connection and the client is 100% okay with whatever happens, fine and dandy.  Our clients are less fault-tolerant.

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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Milt Hathaway

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Re: Airport Express or Extreme?
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2016, 07:45:19 pm »

(I should know better than to take the bait.)
« Last Edit: September 12, 2016, 08:42:24 pm by Milt Hathaway »
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Airport Express or Extreme?
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2016, 08:59:55 pm »

(I should know better than to take the bait.)

No bait.

If you've got a foolproof way I'm very willing to listen and learn.  Most of the folks we work for are so uptight they can make the Lincoln portrait on a penny cry.  We have zero margin for failure.

Part of why I work as an IATSE stage hand is to learn from my betters.  The guys from Sound Image, Clair, Solotech... have been very generous in sharing with me and one of the common things is "we don't use wireless mixing via WiFi."  There are other RF connections that do not attract promiscuous connection attempts that they *do* use from time to time but 2.4gHz and 5.x gHz ain't it.

Until Jim Finney retired from Asleep at the Wheel, their show was mixed remotely using a 900mHz link.  DECT phones and certain wireless DMX products could interfere with it, too, but any problems would be evident long before doors and they had a back up plan or 2 in case something went south at show time.

I'm not yanking your chain, Milt, it's that the level of robustness we need is not delivered by WiFi as I've seen, experienced and used it in situations of many types.  It's not certain to fail but when it does it will be at the most inopportune moment in front of those most likely to have a huge issue with the failure.  That damn Murphy and his law... and being 1/4 Irish I can't buck that guy. ;)
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Bob Charest

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Re: Airport Express or Extreme?
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2016, 09:20:55 pm »

Hi Tim,

The most common "stores & rides in the console case doghouse" setup I see is the Ubiquity Bullet 5Ghz AP with a "stick" antenna (the model has been posted in another thread)...
The one that I use with my Bullet 5Ghz AP is the L-Com HGV-4907U. Just got a spare in the mail today, in fact.
 
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The rest remains amateur hour.
So be it I guess. Tim, you would know the difference, and I certainly respect that. I'm far from Varsity, but cannot tolerate failures either. My clients expect a certain level of presentation and performance. Maybe I'm just lucky to not have ever had a show stopping failure, but I think it has more to do with best practices, and doing a thorough site survey during the day. That and staying away from 2.4Ghz...

Quote
 
Perhaps its different at other levels but in the Varsity leagues you get fired if you have a show stopping failure.  You don't get hired by others because of that reputation and your only recourse is to fire people and spend money on new gear to show potential clients that you learned from whatever happened.  THIS is why no major show, tour or event is mixed without some kind of physical connection between the control surface and the electronics package that manipulates the 1s and 0s.
I have no doubt that this is so, and sure wouldn't want to be in that position. I've been close enough to be happy where I am.

Best regards,
Bob
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frank kayser

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Re: Airport Express or Extreme?
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2016, 10:21:25 pm »

While on one hand I agree with Scott that you really only "need" an AP, a properly set up router doesn't introduce issues and since most folks in the weekend warrior group use their iPads during the week for other things, having DHCP for them is convenient and the DHCP server is usually in the router box. Also, being able to access the Internet at home by just plugging in one cable can make firmware updates easier.

For Debbie, having a spare of exactly the same thing has value. If both are set up the same and correctly, you have an easy solution should an update make something behave funny. Just use the spare till you solve it.

I believe that the best spares are plug replaceable.

I also believe that Debby isn't going to gain anything she doesn't already have by going to yet a 3rd type of box. She already has a spare that isn't a AE. What would be the advantage to her to buy another not identical unit?


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I believe Rob has it nailed here.
Though Rob and Scott have helped you, and generally on the same page, I believe this round goes to Rob.
FWIW
frank
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Keith Broughton

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Re: Airport Express or Extreme?
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2016, 08:00:14 am »

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« Last Edit: September 13, 2016, 12:59:40 pm by Keith Broughton »
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I don't care enough to be apathetic

Scott Holtzman

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Re: Airport Express or Extreme?
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2016, 03:05:18 pm »

I believe Rob has it nailed here.
Though Rob and Scott have helped you, and generally on the same page, I believe this round goes to Rob.
FWIW
frank

I didn't know it was a competition.  I don't have an emotional stake in it.

The wireless infrastructure is such a small outlay the fact she already owns one is not relevant.

The Apple is consumer grade and with every update is more and more cloud based voo doo.

This is being used for a show.  If you want the convenience of reliable wireless then programming enterprise grade gear is part of the package.   Running a show on consumer gear is simply not an option to me.

I am currently testing these Cisco APps with full MIMO support.  As soon as Income up with a pole mount cup these are going to be my new solution.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2016, 03:11:51 pm by Scott Holtzman »
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Lyle Williams

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Re: Airport Express or Extreme?
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2016, 05:45:40 pm »

The apple airport includes an internal power supply, and is a very neat and compact package.

Enterprise Grade (or even Carrier Grade) gear often brings features and overheads of no interest to someone with simple requirements.
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Airport Express or Extreme?
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2016, 12:06:34 am »

Earlier today I updated my other thread about which router to choose as my back-up.I picked up a refurb express from Apple for $49 and it has a full 12 month warranty. I should be in good shape. I feel I'm safer sticking to what I know and what works and has been working for me.
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Re: Airport Express or Extreme?
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2016, 12:06:34 am »


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