ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7]   Go Down

Author Topic: what Digital Mixers to recommend  (Read 13731 times)

Peter Morris

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1286
Re: what Digital Mixers to recommend
« Reply #60 on: September 16, 2016, 12:56:55 am »

And I think many digital live sound mixers are deliberately staying below FSD as people are still used to tickling the reds on analog mixers.  I've seen it opined here that some digital desks with "better" pres are basically configured with a bit more headroom and some sort of graceful clipping that tolerates the old analog techniques.

Exactly!
Logged

George Dougherty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 724
Re: what Digital Mixers to recommend
« Reply #61 on: September 16, 2016, 02:04:25 pm »

I've seen it opined here that some digital desks with "better" pres are basically configured with a bit more headroom and some sort of graceful clipping that tolerates the old analog techniques.
It's not just an opinion. The Venue consoles have 6db or so of headroom between the meters clip point and FSD. It is an option you can disable if you'd rather work metering against true FSD but it was a little more friendly to those who learned to run inputs hot.
Logged

Scott Mullane

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 144
Re: what Digital Mixers to recommend
« Reply #62 on: September 16, 2016, 06:15:18 pm »

It's not just an opinion. The Venue consoles have 6db or so of headroom between the meters clip point and FSD. It is an option you can disable if you'd rather work metering against true FSD but it was a little more friendly to those who learned to run inputs hot.

Hi George
Indeed, the Venue console preference of metering is excellent. You can actually adjust the metering scale quite a bit to be 0,1,3 or 6dB at full scale before clip. I think folks here are more talking about summing through the mix busses and that some of the consoles most favoured for their sound have very high head room and some are almost  infinite. Gotta love maths. : )

Logged

George Dougherty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 724
Re: what Digital Mixers to recommend
« Reply #63 on: September 17, 2016, 09:58:01 am »

Hi George
Indeed, the Venue console preference of metering is excellent. You can actually adjust the metering scale quite a bit to be 0,1,3 or 6dB at full scale before clip. I think folks here are more talking about summing through the mix busses and that some of the consoles most favoured for their sound have very high head room and some are almost  infinite. Gotta love maths. : )



There is that too, though Stephen's comment sounded like he was talking a bit more about input stages.  It's very easy to build in plenty of headroom in the mix path, rather than not like some small popular non-motorized consoles originally did.
Logged

Roland Clarke

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 818
Re: what Digital Mixers to recommend
« Reply #64 on: September 18, 2016, 05:45:01 pm »

I noted that most of the quotes Kevin listed come from the recording world.  Where plug in processors can "look ahead" and latency is basically the amount of offset cause by the most power hungry or combination of plug ins that the system offsets itself with to keep everything sample aligned.

Digital summing got a black eye as there was noticeable sound degradation the more tracks were being mixed together.  This engenders tons of outboard summing boxes where each channel would be run though a D/A summed with an analog mixer or even a simple resistive summing matrix, and back though an A/D into the 2 bus of the DAW.  The absence of digital summing was deemed better than the two extra conversions even though folks recognized that as less than optimal.  Eventually it was noticed that the digital summing wasn't so bad if the tracks were -12 to -18dB instead of nearly FSD (a legacy analog technique of maximizing s/n by tracking everything as near [or even over] clipping).  So now many folks have gone back to "in the box" mixing.  That sounds similar to me to the A&H concept of extra digital headroom.  And I think many digital live sound mixers are deliberately staying below FSD as people are still used to tickling the reds on analog mixers.  I've seen it opined here that some digital desks with "better" pres are basically configured with a bit more headroom and some sort of graceful clipping that tolerates the old analog techniques.

This is an "old wives tale".  Digital summation by its very nature is "perfect".  That's not to say that other factors may be at play, but summing boxes fall into the same category as external wordclock improving jitter, it's urban myth at best, in reality, hogwash.  Digital is capable of far more pristine sound than analogue, period.
Logged

Jeff Simpson

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16
Re: what Digital Mixers to recommend
« Reply #65 on: September 19, 2016, 07:06:36 am »

Digital summation by its very nature is "perfect".

Fixed point addition is perfect, assuming you do not run out of headroom. Floating point addition can introduce errors; how big these errors are and how often they might occur depends on how many bits are used, but to say that all summing systems are perfect is not quite accurate.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 09:03:26 am by Jeff Simpson »
Logged
Allen & Heath UK
Any views expressed in this message are those of myself, and not necessarily those of the A&H.

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: what Digital Mixers to recommend
« Reply #65 on: September 19, 2016, 07:06:36 am »


Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7]   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.042 seconds with 23 queries.