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Author Topic: what Digital Mixers to recommend  (Read 13737 times)

Kevin McDonough

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Re: what Digial Mixers to recommend
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2016, 05:34:28 pm »

IMHO the hardest desk to set up and operate is the Midas Pro series, followed by DigiCo SD; I haven't used an S21 so can't offer any insight.  Once you're up and going they aren't particularly difficult but the challenge is getting to that point.

If you're spending someone else's money (arts centre, public auditorium, university) I suggest Yamaha CL5/Rio.

If you're spending your own funds I suggest either the M32 or S21.


hey

yeah, lots of questions as with everyone else lol. Mainly, what do your customers ask for most?  Do you have to satisfy riders? or is it for your own use.

I own a pro1 and use bigger pro2s as well as expression and digico SD range regularly.

I actually find the Pro series quickest to set up now that I have my head around how it works and have a good workflow, the block patching is easiest once you get used to the screen they use.

An expression is a good "analogue replacement" desk, it's very straightforward and fairly cost effective, but nowhere near as flexible as midas pro, or even M32.

Sound wise Digico tips the scale and just pips everyone to the post, very closely followed by the Midas pros.

I don't think focusing on the protocol that connects the stage box to the desk to much is helpful. If it's Dante then its Dante, or if it's something else then it may need a little change in wiring but will be suitable for the purpose.

However if you do need dante to feed your final outputs from the desk into your PA or monitor system, then a lot of desks come with card slots that a dante card can be fitted into if needed to give you outputs into the PA.

And while there may only be a minimal audio difference between 48k and 96k, running at 96k also has the advantage that it significantly reduces latency through the desk, which is an important consideration especially when used for monitors or in-ears.


Really, at the end of the day it's a question only you can answer.  You need to consider what works in your market, what price points you can get each one for (including stage boxes and infrastructure) and so what will generate a good return, what will be in demand in your area, what you can cross rent and hire more of if needed (or what fills a gap in your local market if you can already hire other consoles at good rates when needed), and combine that with the technical considerations and advice given here, and see what will be best to grow your company and be viable.


k




« Last Edit: September 08, 2016, 05:39:47 pm by Kevin McDonough »
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Don T. Williams

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Re: what Digial Mixers to recommend
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2016, 06:04:34 pm »

+1 for Kevin's post.  Once I understood the patching on the Pro Series I also understood that there are a lot of things you can do with it's patching that can't be done with lessor consoles.

There are a lot of good choices.  The best choice is what works best for you!
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Markus Bangerter

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Re: what Digial Mixers to recommend
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2016, 06:09:54 pm »

ok, thanks so far.

let's assume if will go the Yamaha route and start with a CL/QL. i have already some Focusrite RedNet4 and MP8R units.
is there any issue with using them as "Stage Racks" instead of the RiOs ?
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: what Digial Mixers to recommend
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2016, 06:17:09 pm »

ok, thanks so far.

let's assume if will go the Yamaha route and start with a CL/QL. i have already some Focusrite RedNet4 and MP8R units.
is there any issue with using them as "Stage Racks" instead of the RiOs ?

IIRC, you cannot directly control preamp gain from the CL consoles; you have to use RedNet Control on the computer of your choice.

If your interest in Dante is about trying to save money on i/o, I think you're looking at this all backwards.
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Markus Bangerter

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Re: what Digial Mixers to recommend
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2016, 06:23:04 pm »

IIRC, you cannot directly control preamp gain from the CL consoles; you have to use RedNet Control on the computer of your choice.

If your interest in Dante is about trying to save money on i/o, I think you're looking at this all backwards.

according to Focusrite:
- Remote-controllable Gain, Phantom Power and High-Pass Filter from Yamaha CL and QL Series Consoles.

 
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brian maddox

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Re: what Digial Mixers to recommend
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2016, 08:06:39 pm »

according to Focusrite:
- Remote-controllable Gain, Phantom Power and High-Pass Filter from Yamaha CL and QL Series Consoles.

 

Yeah, they recently added that capability.  Haven't had a chance to try it in the field, but I've been told it's totally seamless.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: what Digial Mixers to recommend
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2016, 09:03:55 pm »

according to Focusrite:
- Remote-controllable Gain, Phantom Power and High-Pass Filter from Yamaha CL and QL Series Consoles.

 

Thanks, Brian M...  I didn't think control from the console was possible but I haven't had a reason to look recently.

Markus, whether or not it's a good idea is up to you, your uses and your clients.  If it were me, I'd use all Yamaha i/o so that visiting engineer's saved show files will work without issue.  If it is only you and your staff that operate the mixers then choice of i/o probably won't matter much.

How much RedNet stuff do you already have?  How many inputs/outputs do you need to accommodate?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2016, 09:07:19 pm by Tim McCulloch »
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Markus Bangerter

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Re: what Digial Mixers to recommend
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2016, 05:39:58 am »

Thanks, Brian M...  I didn't think control from the console was possible but I haven't had a reason to look recently.

Markus, whether or not it's a good idea is up to you, your uses and your clients.  If it were me, I'd use all Yamaha i/o so that visiting engineer's saved show files will work without issue.  If it is only you and your staff that operate the mixers then choice of i/o probably won't matter much.

How much RedNet stuff do you already have?  How many inputs/outputs do you need to accommodate?
Have 3 x RedNet 4, 2 x RedNet 2, 1 x RedNet 1. I was thinking of using the RedNet 4s a "Stage Racks" in a initial phase. maybe later on add a Yamaha RiO to the setup. This would help to protect investments already done to RedNet.

The RedNet units are primarily used to transport audio over long distances (25-300m) on larger areas; Dante Break-In/Break-Out to feed some smaller speakers.

« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 12:48:45 pm by Markus Bangerter »
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Kyle Van Sandt

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Re: what Digital Mixers to recommend
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2016, 12:57:33 pm »

Still having issues here with your venue programming.  At this point it does not really matter what your interconnect is, there are ways to make any console work with anything.  You might have some hoops to jump through but there ya go.  I would also really try to stay away from non-standard setups like non-matched pre-amps.  That will send visiting engineers running for a rental desk quickly. 

I went completely Midas in my 3 spaces.  Pro2's in the big hall, M32 in the smaller hall, and X32 out our outdoor stage.  We primary produce live music, so we wanted the Midas sound... and got it.  Pro2's are great desks but not the best tool for all shows.  For corporate work the QL is the choice.  For Theatre Digico is the desk. 


So... once again... content?  budget? guest engineers?  riders?  input size?.........
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Kyle Van Sandt
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Scott Mullane

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Re: what Digital Mixers to recommend
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2016, 06:31:15 pm »

As everyone has already mentioned, there are some real questions that need to be answered to direct you more accurately.

content?  budget? guest engineers?  riders?  input size?.........

However, I have become a huge fan of the new Allen & Heath d-live and think that it ticks the best part of all or most boxes.

* Easiest console to use by a huge margin.
* Sounds as good, if not better than almost anything currently on the market. (I know, bring the hate, but use one first for a few shows and then get back to me)
* 96k operation (I believe that this hales with the sound not just because the sample rate being higher should sound better, but the higher sample rate lowers the latencies, which is one of the current issues with digital boards)
* Great implementation of scene management that is easily up to theatre spec.
* Most engineers could easily operate one without ever seeing one before.
* Offline editor looks and feels almost exactly like the surface and can also be an online controller for the system
* I am beginning to see it on riders
* It is as easily at home in a theatre install as on a touring rock show.
* It is built tough and can take a serious knock
* It is super affordable
* It has a huge I/O count

...it sounds incredible. Sonically I would put it head to head with a Digico or a Midas.


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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: what Digital Mixers to recommend
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2016, 06:31:15 pm »


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