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[Aisle 6]

To throw a slightly different point on these column speakers...I always find that they are quite wide in their horizontal pattern and folks stack them left and right at small gigs where they end up only maybe 4-6m apart. The centre image then sounds very strange, as you would expect. I have heard them sound pretty good, but I am always baffled at the expense vs performance. Maybe one stick for a performer would tick the portability box and sound decent, but as soon as you add two...the fun then begins.

[Ivan Beaver]

To throw a slightly different point on these column speakers...I always find that they are quite wide in their horizontal pattern and folks stack them left and right at small gigs where they end up only maybe 4-6m apart. The centre image then sounds very strange, as you would expect. I have heard them sound pretty good, but I am always baffled at the expense vs performance. Maybe one stick for a performer would tick the portability box and sound decent, but as soon as you add two...the fun then begins.

The loss of the center image (phantom center) is due to the phase interaction of loudspeakers that interfere with each other.

This happens with any system that is interfering.  It could be multiple "point sources" or large concert line systems.

In order to maintain the phantom center, the phase needs to be preserved.

You can't do that with multiple arrivals at a location.

Yes you can do some "fancy processing" and get it "right" in one location, but it won't be "right" in other locations, because the arrival times are different.

What you need is a single source on each side to get a true phantom center.

Does this matter?  To some it does-to others, they don't care.

But if you have a center image that you swear there is a center speaker, then that is a good clue that the speaker system is well behaved overall.

[Tim Padrick]

I've mixed on a system comprised of a pair of L1MII a number of times.

Is setup quick and simple? Yes.

Can it sound good? Yes, but not without just as much fiddling as a good standard box (some of which sound MUCH better).

Does the sound level change less with distance than "normal" speakers? No.

Is it better than a similarly priced "normal" system? It's not as good, let alone better. Especially if the musical genre "requires" a lot of kick.

At the price, I can't think of any reason to recommend it for any application.

[Jeremy Silverthorn]

I just did a Road Test on the Turbo IP2000 rig. From what I understand, it's a 4 way system. The sub provides the lows, the lower column does the low mids, the upper column handles the upper mids and the Tweeter does the highs. It's a good sounding rig.

I like column systems. I mainly use a Renkus Heinz IC Live for corporates and bands. While not a traditional column (it's digitally steered and has both cones and compression drivers) it's got a great form factor, sounds fantastic and my clients love em.

I also have a Carvin column rig (TRX 3903s over TRX 3018a subs) That system uses nine 3" full range cones in each box. The Carvin rig sounds the same at all distances and has a nice wide 120 horizontal dispersion.  I would pick the Carvin rig over the Turbo, but the Carvin system costs way more than the Turbo.

Hopefully you guys can give me some pointers & help steer me in the right direction.  We do a large corporate function every year in your typical huge hotel ballroom (mainly speaking, but with video playback, music intros, etc. for 300-400 people)  I'm 1/2 of a 2-man AV team & we pretty much set up & run the whole show by ourselves & since the company is cheap, we will buy our own equipment, instead of renting gear & labor year after year.

We run a couple huge dual 15" cabinets & 4 more regular 15" cabinets & have placed them in different configurations every year, never with any excellent results.  (speakers on front corners of stage, on the side corners of the room, running down the sides of the room (w/ no Delay!)  We've probably set it up every WRONG way possible!  We know enough to get the job done, but definitely not the best way to do it!  We're constantly told to "turn down the reverb" when we are just running a basic analog console & don't even use any FX!!  I have a feeling these speakers are on their last legs too, so I'm always on the lookout for a replacement system as well. 

I have been seeing that Renkus Heinz IC Live system in ads for years (but that's way out of our budget)  then I saw the Carvin setup (looks nice & getting closer to our budget) and now just saw an article about the Turbosound IP2000 (looks promising & cheap!)

These types of systems seem like they will sound much better than our current setup, especially with speech in our hotel ballroom environment.  Any other opinions on these stick & sub systems?  Or any tips on improving our sound with the current system in the meantime?  Thanks guys.

[Mac Kerr]

Hopefully you guys can give me some pointers

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Mac

[Speed Daemon]

I've mixed on a system comprised of a pair of L1MII a number of times.

Is setup quick and simple? Yes.

Can it sound good? Yes, but not without just as much fiddling as a good standard box (some of which sound MUCH better).

Does the sound level change less with distance than "normal" speakers? No.

Is it better than a similarly priced "normal" system? It's not as good, let alone better. Especially if the musical genre "requires" a lot of kick.

At the price, I can't think of any reason to recommend it for any application.

Some stick speaker systems are more equal than others, but here is literally what I found on the Renkus-Heinz website:

There are no applications for this product.

http://www.renkus-heinz.com/icl-f-dual-rn (Applications tab)

When I was living down the road from the Full Compass showroom I got to check out several different stick systems, and saw some potential for PA use when there's some background music and a speaker as the main act.  Most sticks perform well for voice reinforcement, and I had a couple of clients who needed just that 90% of the time.  They do have the advantage of having good sight lines in situations where you can't fly anything.  I've also been told by one-man-band musicians that they're great for a singer and acoustic guitar in a coffee shop.  But try to turn them up for amplified music reinforcement, and the ones that I've tried run out of gas pretty quick.

If there are rentals in your area, might as well invest in a small conventional 2-way system that can be pole mounted for FOH (and rotated 90 degrees for long, narrow rooms), or used as wedge monitors with a more substantial FOH system.  That's what I eventually did.

To confirm my initial fears, I got to mix a band that brought their Bose L1 system, and believed that they could use it as FOH and monitors.  It didn't work.  The kit & amps overpowered the little sticks, and when the band asked for more sound, every attempt to eek out more gain became a losing battle with feedback.  (It didn't help that I wasn't even allowed to ring out the setup before they just started playing, but it was obvious that I had run out of overall loudness by then.)  So my verdict is "ambitious but rubbish", and not in the good Top Gear way.

Jeremy, welcome!

[Scott Holtzman]

Some stick speaker systems are more equal than others, but here is literally what I found on the Renkus-Heinz website:

There are no applications for this product.

http://www.renkus-heinz.com/icl-f-dual-rn (Applications tab)

When I was living down the road from the Full Compass showroom I got to check out several

Seems RK uses "application" for client white papers notes.  Not sure if you were going for humor or not.

I have not heard the RK units but I think a general condemnation of the species may not need to be in order.

Another production company in town has the RCF Evox and I found them to work quite well. 

[Ray Aberle]

Hopefully you guys can give me some pointers & help steer me in the right direction.  We do a large corporate function every year in your typical huge hotel ballroom (mainly speaking, but with video playback, music intros, etc. for 300-400 people)  I'm 1/2 of a 2-man AV team & we pretty much set up & run the whole show by ourselves & since the company is cheap, we will buy our own equipment, instead of renting gear & labor year after year.

Hi Jeremy, and welcome to the Forums! You will find there is a tremendous amount of resources on here to help you with this event, and other aspects of your company.

So, first of all, you have an amazing client. Your rig is admittedly not delivering "excellent results," and sounds like you've even had comments back ("turn down the reverb!") from the client- they don't know what they're talking about regarding reverb, naturally, but they know SOMETHING doesn't sound right. That they have then brought you back, year after year, means you have an awesome client that is down to helping you grow. [However, doing the same thing repeatedly expecting different results is not a good thing...] It's good that you're trying to address the problem.

Now, I totally get your thought process about "being cheap, we will buy our own equipment, instead of renting gear & labor year after year" -- BUT think about it this way: If this is the only show that you need improved quality of sound/increased size of the system on, and let's say your rental charge is 5% of the purchase price... You could go 20 years of rentals before you've paid the same amount as you will when buying this system. And then, someone *else* is taking care of depreciation, storage, repairs and maintenance, PLUS upgrading the system when it's no longer worth the upkeep on. That being said, if this new system will allow for more events of the same nature, or expanding the budget of this client, or even get you up to the next level of clientele, then it might be worth it. I just wanted to throw that business POV out to you. [We subrent in another company for a major parade each year. The amount of flyable speakers they provide versus what they charge us? We'd need to secure at least the next 15 years of this event to come out ahead if we just bought everything... so, the only reason I would do that would be if we found ourselves with the opportunity to do *several* events of a similar size each year- then the investment would be worth it. Buying $100k of new gear for one $8k/year show is not a good choice.]

We run a couple huge dual 15" cabinets & 4 more regular 15" cabinets & have placed them in different configurations every year, never with any excellent results.  (speakers on front corners of stage, on the side corners of the room, running down the sides of the room (w/ no Delay!)  We've probably set it up every WRONG way possible!  We know enough to get the job done, but definitely not the best way to do it!  We're constantly told to "turn down the reverb" when we are just running a basic analog console & don't even use any FX!!  I have a feeling these speakers are on their last legs too, so I'm always on the lookout for a replacement system as well. 

Not knowing your budget... you know what I've found to be a great solution for this type of setup, where you're looking for even coverage throughout a room, but can't be flying things? SOS. Speakers on sticks. Mackie SRM450s were what we started with, and there's a lot of other great options in the sub-$1000 range as well. 4-6 of those, 4 along the front wall, couple delayed down the side, and really, you should be good. You don't need 15" speakers, especially dual-15s. You'll want the ability to add a delay to those side speakers, to make sure that someone sitting in the back hears those speakers at the same time they're hearing the main speakers.

The other nice thing about purchasing half a dozen SOS boxes? Now you have smaller breakout room, rental packages, or whatever available. There's a lot of flexibility in those speakers, and SOS rentals are some of the highest ROI you'll find. A $500-$800 box, and it rents for $50-$100/box/day? 8-12 rentals and it's paid for, and THEN you're making bank every time it goes out the door.

Now, if you think your current speakers are about to die, maybe having a professional repair facility check them out would be beneficial. Knowing the model(s) of your current speakers would also help- they just may be bad speakers, and they're "sounding like they are built to." If you're asking more of them than they are capable of, distorted signal could be that "reverb" complaint.

-Ray

[Speed Daemon]

Seems RK uses "application" for client white papers notes.  Not sure if you were going for humor or not.

I was absolutely going for humor there!  It was a funny coincidence to me.  I'm sure that they hadn't filled in that field yet, and wouldn't give special significance to the missing data.

I have had very good experience with Renkus-Heinz, and would never dismiss their products out of hand.  Their stick speakers are at the higher end of that genre.  I'd sure consider them for fixed installation.  But they're just not rated to put out the SPL that you'd expect at a DJ event or from a rock band.  The right tool for the job.

[David Sturzenbecher]

I have had very good experience with Renkus-Heinz, and would never dismiss their products out of hand.  Their stick speakers are at the higher end of that genre.  I'd sure consider them for fixed installation.  But they're just not rated to put out the SPL that you'd expect at a DJ event or from a rock band.  The right tool for the job.

Apparently you have not used the IC live or IC^2 versions. They are quite impressive, and designed for portable use.



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