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Author Topic: 2 AWG Tail Adapters  (Read 5526 times)

Mike Sokol

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2 AWG Tail Adapters
« on: September 07, 2016, 09:58:55 pm »

I have a new set of 2 AWG tails coming in for my 3P distro, and I want to be able to also use them on a 25 kW genny we rent for some gigs. However, the terminals on the genny are too small for 2 gauge tails, and I don't want to peel back any of the copper to make it fit. I seem to remember an adapter that allows larger diameter wire to fit in a smaller block on a circuit breaker. Can anyone give me a hint as to where to find this gadget? 
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Lee Buckalew

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Re: 2 AWG Tail Adapters
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2016, 10:20:48 pm »

I have a new set of 2 AWG tails coming in for my 3P distro, and I want to be able to also use them on a 25 kW genny we rent for some gigs. However, the terminals on the genny are too small for 2 gauge tails, and I don't want to peel back any of the copper to make it fit. I seem to remember an adapter that allows larger diameter wire to fit in a smaller block on a circuit breaker. Can anyone give me a hint as to where to find this gadget?

Mike,
There are probably others, look for reducing splices, but here is one link from Burndy. 
Is this the style that you are looking for?

http://ecat.burndy.com/Comergent/en/US/adirect/burndy?cmd=catDisplayStyleMob&entryPoint=adirect&catKey=603079&messageType=catDisplayStyleMob

I have also heard that you can get creative with nail clippers and use those as an electrical adapter in a pinch.   ;)

Obviously, for those who did not see it, I am joking about another thread.


Lee
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Mike Sokol

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Re: 2 AWG Tail Adapters
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2016, 10:36:34 pm »

Mike,
There are probably others, look for reducing splices, but here is one link from Burndy. 
Is this the style that you are looking for?

http://ecat.burndy.com/Comergent/en/US/adirect/burndy?cmd=catDisplayStyleMob&entryPoint=adirect&catKey=603079&messageType=catDisplayStyleMob

Close, but not quite. I remember something that looked like this, but had 6AWG stranded wire on the small end, while the large end would accept up to 2AWG wire. I suppose I could build this, but I though they might be a stock item somewhere.
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: 2 AWG Tail Adapters
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2016, 10:37:52 pm »

Something like this might work as well.  These are not cheap-but they are durable and as an added bonus the splice is weather/waterproof.

http://www.cesco.com/b2c/product/Ilsco-PBT-250-Dual-Rated-Insulated-In-Line-Splicer/686177

I have heard of what you are looking for Mike, but couldn't find them when I wanted them.
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Mike Sokol

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Re: 2 AWG Tail Adapters
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2016, 10:45:04 pm »

I have heard of what you are looking for Mike, but couldn't find them when I wanted them.

Closer, but more like this except there's a big Allen screw on the large side so you can remove it from the end of the 2AWG wire when I need to tie into a full size breaker.
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Robert Piascik

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Re: 2 AWG Tail Adapters
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2016, 12:30:27 am »

I have this same situation. I had an electrician tell me to get the same device you are looking for but I've never been able to locate it either so I'll be interested in seeing if someone can come up with it. I envisioned it looking just like Mike's picture. Maybe he called it "pin and barrel" connector?
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: 2 AWG Tail Adapters
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2016, 06:45:17 am »

I have a new set of 2 AWG tails coming in for my 3P distro, and I want to be able to also use them on a 25 kW genny we rent for some gigs. However, the terminals on the genny are too small for 2 gauge tails, and I don't want to peel back any of the copper to make it fit. I seem to remember an adapter that allows larger diameter wire to fit in a smaller block on a circuit breaker. Can anyone give me a hint as to where to find this gadget?
I think usual operating procedure is to sacrifice 1/2" of your tails when you do this. Trim them down to fit the baby lugs, then cut off the trimmed part when you have full sized lugs. This ends up happening anyway as the wire end gets tangled, you're just pruning slightly more often this way.
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Mike Sokol

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Re: 2 AWG Tail Adapters
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2016, 07:00:08 am »

I think usual operating procedure is to sacrifice 1/2" of your tails when you do this. Trim them down to fit the baby lugs, then cut off the trimmed part when you have full sized lugs. This ends up happening anyway as the wire end gets tangled, you're just pruning slightly more often this way.
Yeah, I've done exactly that with rental tails many times. There must be a more elegant way to do this...
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Mike Sokol
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Mike Sokol

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Re: 2 AWG Tail Adapters
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2016, 09:27:50 am »

So this could be the solution. The gennys that I rent have 3/8" bolts through their power terminals and the Hubbell KA25 has a 1/2" mounting hole. It looks like the KA25 would fit right on top of the genny terminals using their existing bolts and accept 2AWG without any trimming. There's plenty of clearance under the plexiglass safety plate, so that's not an issue. 

What do you think?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2016, 09:58:43 am by Mike Sokol »
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Mike Sokol
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Mike Sokol

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Re: 2 AWG Tail Adapters
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2016, 10:11:25 am »

The Burndy KPA25 might be a little better since it has a saddle to transfer the clamping force over fine strand cable.
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Rick Earl

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Re: 2 AWG Tail Adapters
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2016, 11:38:27 am »

I have a new set of 2 AWG tails coming in for my 3P distro, and I want to be able to also use them on a 25 kW genny we rent for some gigs. However, the terminals on the genny are too small for 2 gauge tails, and I don't want to peel back any of the copper to make it fit. I seem to remember an adapter that allows larger diameter wire to fit in a smaller block on a circuit breaker. Can anyone give me a hint as to where to find this gadget?

I've seen things like this used in 12V systems for cars:

http://www.knukonceptz.com/mobile-audio/installation-accessories/set-screw-terminals/sp/set-screw-gauge-reducer-40-to-10-gauge/
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Mike Sokol

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Re: 2 AWG Tail Adapters
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2016, 12:05:24 pm »

I've seen things like this used in 12V systems for cars:

http://www.knukonceptz.com/mobile-audio/installation-accessories/set-screw-terminals/sp/set-screw-gauge-reducer-40-to-10-gauge/

That has some promise. I've seen others very similar to this with a perfectly round pin, but the flattened pin has merit since it will have better contact area with the lock-down bolt. I'll see if I can get some for a try.
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Mike Sokol
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Mike Sokol

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Re: 2 AWG Tail Adapters
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2016, 12:36:00 pm »

Or going back to my original pic, maybe this car installer gadget would work after all. I think the term connectors on a genny are only rated for stranded wire, but maybe I'm wrong and they'll work with solid pins as well.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: 2 AWG Tail Adapters
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2016, 02:58:02 pm »

Or going back to my original pic, maybe this car installer gadget would work after all. I think the term connectors on a genny are only rated for stranded wire, but maybe I'm wrong and they'll work with solid pins as well.

Stranded only.  Also I'm not sure a solid metal reducer is Code-compliant for use in panels or switchboards; whether that applies to generator lugs I can't say.

I think the easiest solution, provided it actually gets done, is to have the generator shop change lugs as part of their prep.
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Mike Sokol

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Re: 2 AWG Tail Adapters
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2016, 03:15:58 pm »

Stranded only.  Also I'm not sure a solid metal reducer is Code-compliant for use in panels or switchboards; whether that applies to generator lugs I can't say.
I think the easiest solution, provided it actually gets done, is to have the generator shop change lugs as part of their prep.

LOL that's never going to happen. So how about my latest suggestion of the KPA25? It's rated  and sized for the stranded wire coming in from the tails. And I can bolt it right on top of the existing generator lugs with existing hardware.
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Mike Sokol
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: 2 AWG Tail Adapters
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2016, 03:17:59 pm »

LOL that's never going to happen. So how about my latest suggestion of the KPA25? It's rated  and sized for the stranded wire coming in from the tails. And I can bolt it right on top of the existing generator lugs with existing hardware.

A rated/Listed lug, installed according to manufacturer's instructions is probably a very good bet at being compliant.
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Re: 2 AWG Tail Adapters
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2016, 04:28:12 pm »

I have this same situation. I had an electrician tell me to get the same device you are looking for but I've never been able to locate it either so I'll be interested in seeing if someone can come up with it. I envisioned it looking just like Mike's picture. Maybe he called it "pin and barrel" connector?

At last, a question in my ballpark!

Bi-Metallic Pin Connector:
http://www.cesco.com/b2c/product/Panduit-BPC2-L-BiMetallic-Pin-Connector-Aluminum-2/521973

Several manufacturers offer this, some even offer right angle type (also offset pin connectors).
Normally used to reduce Aluminum to a stranded copper pigtail so there is no reduction of ampacity.
It is a crimp system (reduces #2 to #4, not #6)
Several manufacturers have paid UL to test for "range taking" ratings: T&B 1/0 crimp style with correct tooling can crimp down to #6 with correct pressure raised ID (8 ton compression)!

Another lug similar to the Burndy KA25 (35401 maxes out at #2, but tang too small to drill out to 3/8").
http://www.cesco.com/b2c/product/Thomas-Betts-35501-Locktite-Offset-Tongue-One-Hole/69992

A ferrule sleeve will help prevent fraying in mechanical lugs (T&B # F9034 is for #2 code wire, when using fine stranded wire usually go up 1 size, F9037 is for 1/0).
http://www-public.tnb.com/ps/fulltilt/index.cgi?part=F9034

HTH,

Jeff Robinson
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Craig Hauber

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Re: 2 AWG Tail Adapters
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2016, 05:02:55 pm »

I have a new set of 2 AWG tails coming in for my 3P distro, and I want to be able to also use them on a 25 kW genny we rent for some gigs. However, the terminals on the genny are too small for 2 gauge tails, and I don't want to peel back any of the copper to make it fit. I seem to remember an adapter that allows larger diameter wire to fit in a smaller block on a circuit breaker. Can anyone give me a hint as to where to find this gadget?

I have used a standard copper/brass split-bolt you can get at Lowe's Depot or just about any hardware store.
You use them to attach foot-long pieces of standard contractor-grade #2 copper to the ends of you feeder without having to strip or trim anything off of them.
I e-tape the whole thing good and then wrap with friction tape or that cold-seal rubber tape to give it abrasive durability as some times you go many shows without having to undo it.
(usually the whole assembly should end up inside the cabinet or panel with the breaker or lugs so it wouldn't be accessible for casual contact)
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Re: 2 AWG Tail Adapters
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2016, 05:02:55 pm »


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