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Author Topic: Time for an upgrade  (Read 12604 times)

Josh Carkner

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Re: Time for an upgrade
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2016, 01:15:41 pm »

The OP said he wants to go lightweight and keep it under $1200 a box, probably used. There's not a lot of stuff I can think of in this category. The Community 920's or 960's are very loud and efficient mid/hi boxes and can be had for that price range, but they also cut off at a frequency similar to the MTH-1's. I agree, if you want to live with the weight, a pile of the EAW KF650/SB1000 boxes (2 of each a side, or maybe increase the subs if you want monster low end), WITH the UX8800 processor, would be a standard screaming outdoor system, and could be found for $1200 a box or less depending on model, condition and age.

Gotcha, this was a rig I was thinking about. Really, as long as I have a capable updated rig weight isn't too big of an issue. Now if I could find something a bit easier to manage that would be nice!

As far as my budget is concerned I was hoping to keep it 10k or under for whatever system I decide to go with. The $1200 per box would be if I needed 4 dual 18" subs and 4 3-way tops, but I'm not locked into that configuration if there are better options out there that are as capable with less boxes.
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Josh Carkner

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Re: Time for an upgrade
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2016, 01:22:13 pm »

That would be the 2nd question.  Joshua, are you looking to fly something like a moderate sized LA or something like a Danley SH96?  Or is this for ground stack only?

The reason I asked about SPL is that I do a community park event for 300+ with a pair of DSR112s over 4 CuboSubs.  The last one was an R&B group.  The organizers are fine with mid 90's levels in the grass seating area and mid 100's where people are dancing.  They're talking about a larger event for which I've been investigating renting SM-80s over dual TH118s.  But if you want 115dB in the audience, that's a whole different level of equipment and is going to involve some fairly serious rigging.

Well with my current system I can get 120db at FOH if I need it, but a rarely go that loud. I like to see around 105 at FOH doing pop/rock party band stuff.
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Josh Carkner

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Re: Time for an upgrade
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2016, 01:39:08 pm »

I am a little confused on the budget.  $1200 a box is a good starting point, but does that assume that there will be only 2 tops over 2 subs?

Mr Kirby has nailed the other question very well.

When people say that you need lots of rig outdoors, they are referring to needing to have concert level sound coverage over a large area.  This is line array territory ..... and is out of budget for most of us mere mortals ;)

For most town festivals .... where it would not be unusual to see 300-500 people in the area of the stage, you don't usually need (or desire) concert level sound anywhere but the immediate area around the stage IMO.

This is how a pair of DSR112's over some competent subs (or several of them) can be a solution to your question.

I have covered such a show before with a pair of DSR112's with 4 JBL PRX 618S-XLF's center clustered.  This was for a Scorpions motorcycle club summer party of ~700.

The key to how this could work is that many of the people were not interested in sitting in an area where the SPL was >100db (just the dancers .... of which there were much less of ;) ).

In a festival setting, the people that are >70ft from stage, likely still want to be able to carry on a conversation.  If you can cover a 70x70 foot area with concert level sound, then you are OK in this type of venue IMO.

You should look seriously at the TH118's though.  They may appear to be quite expensive, but they can out-thump anything I can think of for the same price ..... and you have fewer of them to carry to do it.

The other thing to consider is the weight of each part you have to carry.

While it is true that an SRX828p is a great speaker for price/thump ratio, if you can't carry it or haul it, it doesn't really matter.  This is where having a bunch of PRX718XLF's pays off.  Each one isn't that heavy (~81lbs), and they put out very respectable amounts of thump.  I can carry one by myself in a pinch, but they are too large for most people to do by themselves.... and I greatly prefer a 2nd pair of hands myself to move them as well.

Just some things to think about.

10k is really the budget cap for a rig that can outperform my current rig.

I would really like to be able to get up to 115db 70 ft back from the stage if I need it, but most of the time I will be around 105.

You certainly raise a good point about the subs. If I did 8 single 18" subs it would be easier to manage, but 4 dual 18" subs would be cheaper. I think I still would probably lean towards 4 dual 18" subs.
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Mark Wilkinson

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Re: Time for an upgrade
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2016, 02:04:30 pm »

My amp rack consists of 4 PL380's, a PL325 and a driverack 260.

I'd like to be able to cover 300 people at rock concert levels and I'm okay with having too much, I just don't ever want to be in a situation where I don't have enough.

Maybe JTR 3TX if you can find some used ?   
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Scott Carneval

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Re: Time for an upgrade
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2016, 02:29:56 pm »

10k is really the budget cap for a rig that can outperform my current rig.

I would really like to be able to get up to 115db 70 ft back from the stage if I need it, but most of the time I will be around 105.

You certainly raise a good point about the subs. If I did 8 single 18" subs it would be easier to manage, but 4 dual 18" subs would be cheaper. I think I still would probably lean towards 4 dual 18" subs.

Frankly, in terms of performance I don't see a viable upgrade path that will give you MORE OUTPUT for $10k, unless you keep the MTL-1 subs. 

The Danley SH46 would be a significant upgrade, but it's pattern is 40h x 60v, so that might not provide the coverage you need. Then again the MTH-1's are 60x40, so it's not too much different. You could turn them on their sides to get 60x40, but they also wouldn't ground stack in this orientation. You'd need to come up with some sort of wedge to place under them, or fly them. It would fit your budget, but you still couldn't buy subs. No fancy processor is necessary.

If you can get a really good deal, you might be able to swing a pair of Danley TH118 and a pair of SM80's. The SM80's will have roughly the same output as the MTH-1's, but they're smaller, lighter, and will sound better. The pair of TH118's will have comparable output to all 6 of your MTL-1's, and go much lower. They are smaller, take up less space in the truck, less space on the stage, and require less amp channels. If I was in your position this is probably the route I would go.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2016, 02:35:06 pm by Scott Carneval »
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eric lenasbunt

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Re: Time for an upgrade
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2016, 02:55:36 pm »

Frankly, in terms of performance I don't see a viable upgrade path that will give you MORE OUTPUT for $10k, unless you keep the MTL-1 subs. 

The Danley SH46 would be a significant upgrade, but it's pattern is 40h x 60v, so that might not provide the coverage you need. Then again the MTH-1's are 60x40, so it's not too much different. You could turn them on their sides to get 60x40, but they also wouldn't ground stack in this orientation. You'd need to come up with some sort of wedge to place under them, or fly them. It would fit your budget, but you still couldn't buy subs. No fancy processor is necessary.

If you can get a really good deal, you might be able to swing a pair of Danley TH118 and a pair of SM80's. The SM80's will have roughly the same output as the MTH-1's, but they're smaller, lighter, and will sound better. The pair of TH118's will have comparable output to all 6 of your MTL-1's, and go much lower. They are smaller, take up less space in the truck, less space on the stage, and require less amp channels. If I was in your position this is probably the route I would go.

Just don't do SM80 without the th118. I tried some with some older dual 18's and there was a big old low mid hole. Used with the TH118 the sub plays high and fills the hole
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Scott Carneval

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Re: Time for an upgrade
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2016, 03:18:50 pm »

Just don't do SM80 without the th118. I tried some with some older dual 18's and there was a big old low mid hole. Used with the TH118 the sub plays high and fills the hole

It's not that the conventional front loaded subs can't play up to 150-160hz, they just tend to sound like a pile of ass doing it. Pardon my French.

The horn loading of the TH118 gives it a much tighter, smoother, more musical sound.


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Robert Piascik

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Re: Time for an upgrade
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2016, 07:14:51 pm »

A ground stack system is really what I'm looking for. If they did have the ability to be flown that may be useful for me some day.

When we can't fly our SM80 we mount them on USS Tl110BL stands. They take the bottom of the box over 9' up which improves the coverage considerably.

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Scott Carneval

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Time for an upgrade
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2016, 07:53:08 pm »

When we can't fly our SM80 we mount them on USS Tl110BL stands. They take the bottom of the box over 9' up which improves the coverage considerably.

I use the TS-88B which gets them to a little over 9'. I also have the K&M tilt adapters, which add another 8-10" plus they have an expanding mandrel to eliminate any wobble. When it's all said and done the top of the speaker is about 11' in the air. I've only used them in this configuration for demos (we're a systems integrator so we do very little live work) but I would definitely want to sandbag the legs if we were outdoors.


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« Last Edit: September 04, 2016, 08:50:32 pm by Scott Carneval »
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Josh Carkner

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Re: Time for an upgrade
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2016, 09:57:36 pm »

So far based on what I've read a pair of Danley SM80's over a pair of TH118's would be a good upgrade, is that right? I've never heard a Danley rig unfortunately, but that's pretty impressive that 2 tops over 2 subs would be able to get that loud.

Other options I'm considering are below:

4 JBL SRX835's over 4 SRX828's
4 EAW KF650z's over 4 SB850's or SB1000's

Now I was also able to hear a yorkville rig that I was impressed with. It was 4 U15's over 4 UCS1's powered by plowerlights. I was thinking maybe 4 U15's over 4 LS1208's since the 1208's get a bit louder and go a bit lower. Any thoughts on that?
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Time for an upgrade
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2016, 09:57:36 pm »


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