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Author Topic: Lead singer using cheap processor.  (Read 14665 times)

Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Lead singer using cheap processor.
« Reply #60 on: September 06, 2016, 05:13:49 pm »

Sorry to hear of your night. Sigh...

About the gtr, just a mic on the amp and put the DI before his pedalboard. Still only two wires/channels.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Yep.. That's exactly what I did Rob.
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A young child says to his mother, "Mom, when I grow up I'm going to be a musician." She replies, "Well honey, you know you can't do both."

Tom Roche

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Re: Lead singer using cheap processor.
« Reply #61 on: September 06, 2016, 06:47:07 pm »

I did not dare send the clean vocal to the wedge - it would have given the game away. This was as good as I could get first time out. The singer had to hear the processed sound - he made that clear.
However, this cannot happen again so I will be playing the recording to him as suggested and whether he gets it or not, I refuse to run the sound for them under these circumstances.

If I thought there's a chance the singer could learn, adapt, overcome, etc., then I could put up with his behavior for a VERY short while.  Re the bolded text above: I'd take the same approach.  It's not worth your frustration if he doesn't get it.
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frank kayser

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Re: Lead singer using cheap processor.
« Reply #62 on: September 11, 2016, 11:02:00 am »

Yep, there are more than a few Neanderthals in the wild out there. As a musician who also owns our sound system, I have dealt with some sound guys (when we are not our own providers) who assume I don't know anything about sound when we start to interact. I can see that it would be doubly frustrating to be female and have an assumed level of disrespect before even uttering a word. I have been in this business long enough to give the other person a few minutes of talking and doing before I size them up on whether they are a genius, a dunce, or something in between, regardless of race/sex/age/etc.
There. Fixed it for you.


Walking the line between being cajoling and exercising authority with a band unknown can be treacherous.  My being big and male certainly makes a difference with some, though I try to work more through cajoling than authority.  I was raised to see men and women in work as equals; I really wish more men were raised that way.  I see it and it maddens me, especially among the more well educated (who, IMO, should know better).  Kudos to you, Deb, for navigating a very tough show and making it work well.
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Lead singer using cheap processor.
« Reply #63 on: September 11, 2016, 12:09:40 pm »

I appreciate the kind words and have only experienced respect on the forum.
It is ironic really - many posters on the forum are FAR more experienced and involved in sound reinforcement at a much higher level than I, yet it seems to be those who have little knowledge who want to fight me and question me on what I know.
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: Lead singer using cheap processor.
« Reply #64 on: September 12, 2016, 06:11:25 pm »

I wouldn't take it personally Debbie.  At the lounge level there are lots of folks musicians run into that you know from the getgo is going to be a fight.  You walk in and they immediately start telling you how to set up and begin reeling off factoids on gear to impress you with how "knowledgeable" they are.  They haven't heard your band and don't know anything about what you are going to do.  I know guitar players with half stacks who play so quietly that even in a small bar they're hard to hear besides though the PA.  And I've run into folks who crank a 1-12 tipped back so hard that you wonder how they can hear anyone else in the band.  But these "experts" will take one look at the half stack and immediately start telling the guitarist to turn it around at the wall or some such drivel.  You get this long enough and any unknown sound person becomes immediately suspect.  It has nothing to do with gender, and everything to do with the hoard of clueless clowns who've talked their way into "producing" every band that comes through their bar with the 12ch Mackie and 12" two-ways handing from the handles on the ceiling.
This weekend I was on a weekend trip and went by a place I used to play at regularly.  They still have the same sound dood.  Awkwardly shaped restaurant with pretty minimal gear that's basically only useful for getting the vocals out.  But he insists on putting a mic in front of everything and managing it from a poorly located mix position.  Which means he has no idea what half the place is getting.  The band this weekend didn't manage their solo levels very well.  One horn and the keyboard played at basically the same volume all the time.  Meaning you couldn't hear them soloing.  Okay, they could be better musicians and manage what they do better, but in their absence, since you're getting paid to sit there all night, how about turning them up during solos and back down afterwards?  You know, mixing?
This is often what you are up against when you get "resistance".  You may know that you are going to make the band sound as good as possible, bands you've worked with may know this, but I completely understand the reticence of a musician to someone they don't know telling them how things should be done.

I'm probably fortunate in that I do much more playing that SR and have a reputation for playing with a good sound and some gear geek understanding of how to do that.  So when folks find me providing sound they're somewhat at ease.  But even at that, there are folks I don't know.  The last SR gig I did, there was a sub guitar player I didn't know.  He had a 4-10 amp and was loud enough that I barely had in the PA.  Good player with good tone.  Nothing to be gained from trying to get him to turn down.  The mix over 90% of the audience area was fine.  Maybe he was a tad strong right in line with his rig for the first 50'.  Let him play and not raise the stress level he must have felt subbing for the regular killer player.  Great band of top local players.  Maybe I could have polished it another 5% if I had everything "my way", but they sounded great, the audience and organizers loved it and the drummer (guy who took over DG's chair in TOP in the '80s) asked for my card and availability for gigs he was doing with another band.  If I was causing friction I'm not sure things would have gone down as well.
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Lead singer using cheap processor.
« Reply #65 on: September 12, 2016, 06:22:01 pm »

I wouldn't take it personally Debbie.  At the lounge level there are lots of folks musicians run into that you know from the getgo is going to be a fight.  You walk in and they immediately start telling you how to set up and begin reeling off factoids on gear to impress you with how "knowledgeable" they are.  They haven't heard your band and don't know anything about what you are going to do.  I know guitar players with half stacks who play so quietly that even in a small bar they're hard to hear besides though the PA.  And I've run into folks who crank a 1-12 tipped back so hard that you wonder how they can hear anyone else in the band.  But these "experts" will take one look at the half stack and immediately start telling the guitarist to turn it around at the wall or some such drivel.  You get this long enough and any unknown sound person becomes immediately suspect.  It has nothing to do with gender, and everything to do with the hoard of clueless clowns who've talked their way into "producing" every band that comes through their bar with the 12ch Mackie and 12" two-ways handing from the handles on the ceiling.
This weekend I was on a weekend trip and went by a place I used to play at regularly.  They still have the same sound dood.  Awkwardly shaped restaurant with pretty minimal gear that's basically only useful for getting the vocals out.  But he insists on putting a mic in front of everything and managing it from a poorly located mix position.  Which means he has no idea what half the place is getting.  The band this weekend didn't manage their solo levels very well.  One horn and the keyboard played at basically the same volume all the time.  Meaning you couldn't hear them soloing.  Okay, they could be better musicians and manage what they do better, but in their absence, since you're getting paid to sit there all night, how about turning them up during solos and back down afterwards?  You know, mixing?
This is often what you are up against when you get "resistance".  You may know that you are going to make the band sound as good as possible, bands you've worked with may know this, but I completely understand the reticence of a musician to someone they don't know telling them how things should be done.

I'm probably fortunate in that I do much more playing that SR and have a reputation for playing with a good sound and some gear geek understanding of how to do that.  So when folks find me providing sound they're somewhat at ease.  But even at that, there are folks I don't know.  The last SR gig I did, there was a sub guitar player I didn't know.  He had a 4-10 amp and was loud enough that I barely had in the PA.  Good player with good tone.  Nothing to be gained from trying to get him to turn down.  The mix over 90% of the audience area was fine.  Maybe he was a tad strong right in line with his rig for the first 50'.  Let him play and not raise the stress level he must have felt subbing for the regular killer player.  Great band of top local players.  Maybe I could have polished it another 5% if I had everything "my way", but they sounded great, the audience and organizers loved it and the drummer (guy who took over DG's chair in TOP in the '80s) asked for my card and availability for gigs he was doing with another band.  If I was causing friction I'm not sure things would have gone down as well.

Yeah - you are right. I think it is very much a 2 way street and there are idiots on both sides. 
I suppose the challenge to prove oneself is quite a healthy thing and keeps us on our toes.
I do believe that I have to work harder to prove myself though simply because folks in this industry and musicians alike, are simply not used to seeing females do this type of thing and it throws them a bit. It helps that I am a total tomboy because if I turned up in sparkly shirts and high heels, I'd really suffer at the hands of the doubters!!!

Good call on the guitar player - sometimes you just have to give a little bit - especially if no-one is complaining!
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frank kayser

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Re: Lead singer using cheap processor.
« Reply #66 on: September 12, 2016, 10:49:54 pm »

Yeah - you are right. I think it is very much a 2 way street and there are idiots on both sides. 
I suppose the challenge to prove oneself is quite a healthy thing and keeps us on our toes.
I do believe that I have to work harder to prove myself though simply because folks in this industry and musicians alike, are simply not used to seeing females do this type of thing and it throws them a bit. It helps that I am a total tomboy because if I turned up in sparkly shirts and high heels, I'd really suffer at the hands of the doubters!!!

Good call on the guitar player - sometimes you just have to give a little bit - especially if no-one is complaining!
Give a little; take a little.  The art is knowing when to let things run, and when to step in.
You know that bands you've mixed before, other than hubby's, are REALLY HAPPY to see YOU at the controls, and play better because they're worry free about their sound out front.  That's the payoff.
frank


ps. I, too, try to stay away from the glitter and high heels.  Sets people right on edge when I show up like that.
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Rick Powell

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Re: Lead singer using cheap processor.
« Reply #67 on: September 12, 2016, 11:56:21 pm »

ps. I, too, try to stay away from the glitter and high heels.  Sets people right on edge when I show up like that.

Ha! Reminds me of a Midwestern band I encountered on an off-night when I was touring in the 80's. The band was dressed pretty low-key in jeans and such, but their lighting person (who was some sort of electronic whiz and had computerized their extensive lighting system, sorta rare in those days) was wearing an orange jumpsuit with a cape. I guess a superhero is needed every once in awhile in production.
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Lead singer using cheap processor.
« Reply #68 on: September 13, 2016, 12:07:26 am »

Give a little; take a little.  The art is knowing when to let things run, and when to step in.
You know that bands you've mixed before, other than hubby's, are REALLY HAPPY to see YOU at the controls, and play better because they're worry free about their sound out front.  That's the payoff.
frank


ps. I, too, try to stay away from the glitter and high heels.  Sets people right on edge when I show up like that.


The word is out and has been for some time Frank- I heard about you a long time ago...... ;)
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A young child says to his mother, "Mom, when I grow up I'm going to be a musician." She replies, "Well honey, you know you can't do both."

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Re: Lead singer using cheap processor.
« Reply #68 on: September 13, 2016, 12:07:26 am »


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