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Author Topic: DHCP or STATIC?  (Read 14173 times)

frank kayser

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Re: DHCP or STATIC?
« Reply #50 on: August 31, 2016, 09:21:55 am »

Duh. We had huge ip networks before DHCP , oh, it was called the Internet.

DHCP servers only hand out addresses. Addresses are what makes the network work. You can manually assign addresses too.

A local LAN does not need a router for the devices on the LAN to communicate with each other. You only need to 'route' to get to another network.

See my explanation of what is in the box above.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Believe it or not, some folks are unaware of setting up a network in this way, and that a "router" is not necessary.
Just trying to help, pointing out another way to skin the cat.  No harm, no foul.


A few things to simplify.
<snip>
With regard to static and DHCP scope exhaustion.

This is incorrect,  guests do not get IP addresses, the DHCP process requires a layer 2 connection so it must be authenticated to your wireless network prior to the assignment.  Pool exhaustion in a public setting is not an issue.
<snip>


Thanks for simplifying.
Regarding the DHCP scope exhaustion, would you mind if I pick your rain offline a bit?  Throw me a PM.


frank
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Kevin Maxwell

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Re: DHCP or STATIC?
« Reply #51 on: August 31, 2016, 11:22:48 am »

I am using in one setup (just to balance different speaker zone levels) a WAP with a Midas M32. I have it set up pretty much the way that Rob shows in reply 47. Except I am using an android phone. I am not trying to mix the show on it. Most of the concerts I am doing I don’t feel comfortable trying to do it on anything but the mixer.

In another setup I am directly hooked up from the computer running Palladium (Musical theater scene management software) directly to the console. No router/switch or WAP involved. I can’t take the chance of dropped packets. The following is a quote from the developer of Palladium. – “the messages between Palladium and the XM32 are sent via UDP and not TCP/IP. Thus if a message gets lost along the way we have no way to recover it. This is a function of OSC, and neither Behringer or I can do anything about it. Thus the network connection between Palladium and the XM32 needs to be built in such a way that messages NEVER get delayed or lost.”

So the console is set to a static IP for this also. I am also using a static ARP table entry. And this has all worked perfectly for me. Another quote – “Regarding a static ARP table entry, when Palladium (or any other app) wants to send data to the X32 via OSC, it does so via the X32’s IP address. However computer networks send data via MAC addresses, and so deep inside any network device (including Windows) is what is known as the ARP table, which translates IP addresses into MAC addresses. This table is maintained automatically by the network device, but on most devices the table is periodically “cleaned” and entries which the device thinks are no longer needed get deleted. Now, if Palladium were then to try and send a bunch of messages to the X32, some of them could get discarded as Windows only buffers one message whilst it is re-building the X32’s ARP table entry.”

I don’t know if it is because of this behavior why some people have problems with the WiFi control of mixers.

 I am going to play around with trying to use wireless device and see if I can make it work because a new Palladium user wants to use a tablet with his setup.

On a different computer I use Shure’s Wireless Workbench to monitor the wireless receivers for the musicals and I had a problem using a router for that. It seemed like it tried to reassign the IP addresses and I lost control of one on the receivers a couple of times. I now have an Ethernet switch that I am going to try and see if I can get that working with static IP addresses.

Is there any website that spells out what the different IP addresses are used for. Like what range is for DHCP etc.. In other words an idiots guide for this kind of networking usage. 
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Milt Hathaway

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Re: DHCP or STATIC?
« Reply #52 on: August 31, 2016, 01:40:50 pm »

Base Station named and secured
Internet set to static 192.168.0.1 Subnet 255.255.255.0 Router 192.168.0.98 . Tried the PPOE but router won't update and light stays orange.
Wireless named and secured WPA2

Are you hooking this up to the Internet? You shouldn't be, as this is not a good thing or (typically) necessary thing for a system control network. Set the Internet (WAN) side to DHCP and forget about it. Ignore the light color, as it's just warning you that there is no Internet access. Don't bother plugging anything into that WAN port, either, as it's on the wrong side of the 'fence' from the rest of your system network.

Network DHCP only range 192.168.0.3-90 (if I choose DHCP NAT I get the warning that the DHCP addresses conflict with the Internet IP address)

Once you corrected the WAN issue, set it back to DHCP-NAT. NAT stand for Network Address Translation, meaning the router acts as a gatekeeper your network (Local Area Network) and the Internet (Wide Area Network), keeping the outside world from seeing or caring about your network's IP address scheme. You don't need this, but it keeps that error about about the missing WAN IP address from causing problems.

The iPad will connect to the network in DHCP mode but takes 30-40 seconds to do so.  If I assign an IP of 192.168.0.100 to the iPad, the connection is very quick. Same on 2.4 or 5 gig. Not sure why.

This is related to your turning off NAT yet not actually having an Internet connection.
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Keith Broughton

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Re: DHCP or STATIC?
« Reply #53 on: August 31, 2016, 02:20:40 pm »

Are you hooking this up to the Internet? You shouldn't be, as this is not a good thing or (typically) necessary thing for a system control network. Set the Internet (WAN) side to DHCP and forget about it. Ignore the light color, as it's just warning you that there is no Internet access. Don't bother plugging anything into that WAN port, either, as it's on the wrong side of the 'fence' from the rest of your system network.

Once you corrected the WAN issue, set it back to DHCP-NAT. NAT stand for Network Address Translation, meaning the router acts as a gatekeeper your network (Local Area Network) and the Internet (Wide Area Network), keeping the outside world from seeing or caring about your network's IP address scheme. You don't need this, but it keeps that error about about the missing WAN IP address from causing problems.

This is related to your turning off NAT yet not actually having an Internet connection.
I don't connect to the internet.
WAN is now DHCP
Wireless is now DHCP NAT with a specific range of IP addresses.
iPad on DHCP connects MUCH faster.
Now I will see if this all works connecting to a console tomorrow.
Thanks all :)
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Rob Spence

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Re: DHCP or STATIC?
« Reply #54 on: August 31, 2016, 05:57:42 pm »

I am using in one setup (just to balance different speaker zone levels) a WAP with a Midas M32. I have it set up pretty much the way that Rob shows in reply 47. Except I am using an android phone. I am not trying to mix the show on it. Most of the concerts I am doing I don’t feel comfortable trying to do it on anything but the mixer.

In another setup I am directly hooked up from the computer running Palladium (Musical theater scene management software) directly to the console. No router/switch or WAP involved. I can’t take the chance of dropped packets. The following is a quote from the developer of Palladium. – “the messages between Palladium and the XM32 are sent via UDP and not TCP/IP. Thus if a message gets lost along the way we have no way to recover it. This is a function of OSC, and neither Behringer or I can do anything about it. Thus the network connection between Palladium and the XM32 needs to be built in such a way that messages NEVER get delayed or lost.”

So the console is set to a static IP for this also. I am also using a static ARP table entry. And this has all worked perfectly for me. Another quote – “Regarding a static ARP table entry, when Palladium (or any other app) wants to send data to the X32 via OSC, it does so via the X32’s IP address. However computer networks send data via MAC addresses, and so deep inside any network device (including Windows) is what is known as the ARP table, which translates IP addresses into MAC addresses. This table is maintained automatically by the network device, but on most devices the table is periodically “cleaned” and entries which the device thinks are no longer needed get deleted. Now, if Palladium were then to try and send a bunch of messages to the X32, some of them could get discarded as Windows only buffers one message whilst it is re-building the X32’s ARP table entry.”

I don’t know if it is because of this behavior why some people have problems with the WiFi control of mixers.

 I am going to play around with trying to use wireless device and see if I can make it work because a new Palladium user wants to use a tablet with his setup.

On a different computer I use Shure’s Wireless Workbench to monitor the wireless receivers for the musicals and I had a problem using a router for that. It seemed like it tried to reassign the IP addresses and I lost control of one on the receivers a couple of times. I now have an Ethernet switch that I am going to try and see if I can get that working with static IP addresses.

Is there any website that spells out what the different IP addresses are used for. Like what range is for DHCP etc.. In other words an idiots guide for this kind of networking usage.

Within a subnet (class C subnets have 254 available addresses. Any address can be used for anything. The network admin decides how they will use the addresses.

Since most consumer "routers" ship at address 1, I never use that address in case someone brings gear with a router embedded. They also tend to be the class C 192.168.1.x subnet. I never use that subnet either. Note that there is no harm to multiple routers on a net as long as they have unique addresses and only one has a DHCP server enabled.

My scheme is to use 250-254 for router like things, 51-100 for DHCP, 101-200 for static addresses for devices. At one site where there are few static ip needs and many DHCP needs I use a different scheme (I think the DHCP range is 51-190).

Note, my scheme forces me to reconfigure the box which means I set everything to how I want it. I don't use the box defaults for much.

By setting the WAN port to DHCP and enabling NAT, I can simply plug that port into someone's local LAN for Internet access (I only really do it at the shop to update firmware etc)  and the firewall function keeps everyone else out of my network. It also means I never have to reconfigure my gear to test in the shop. The "router" lives with a mixer basically. Heck, good ones cost less than $100, the price of one SM58.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Yes, so DHCP (and some poorly chosen parameters, and too many clients) killed the network, and if a show was running on the iPad/Mixer, that would have gone down too.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 05:59:53 pm by Rob Spence »
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Keith Broughton

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Re: DHCP or STATIC?
« Reply #55 on: September 02, 2016, 02:12:33 pm »

Had a chance to test on the QU16 and all good.
Thanks for the help.
I didn't want to be an IT person but seems like it's part of the gig now   ::)
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: DHCP or STATIC?
« Reply #55 on: September 02, 2016, 02:12:33 pm »


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