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Author Topic: Paudio c15 600EL coil smell, too much power?  (Read 3628 times)

Eugen Jeličić

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Paudio c15 600EL coil smell, too much power?
« on: August 08, 2016, 07:58:59 am »

We bought 4 used home made "Mini H scoops" loaded with paudio C15-600EL drivers for a club i work in. We are really happy with the boxes, i was suprised by the SPL and frequency response they have considering they are 15's.

But i have a problem, we run them using 2 yamaha p7000s amps, one sub on each channel.
This means about 750w peak since this is the 8 ohm power rating for this amp.

Still it seems to me that when pushed very hard with bass heavey electronic music like drum'n bass, they seem to hit thermal compression.

I didn't run them up to the clipping point and they allways sound great, but they tend do start smelling a bit after 30 minutes of constant sub torture and the amps sometimes start hitting the clipping point wihouth me pushing the gain.

So we are at a constant level, the amps are not clipping during the first few minutes but after the coils warm up, they begin peaking into clip.

Also, i can't figure out why do they have a slight burning smell when pushed hard. They are rated at 600W continuous, they have been sitting for a few years so this might me some dust on the coils or it's too much power?
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Paudio c15 600EL coil smell, too much power?
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2016, 07:34:52 pm »

We bought 4 used home made "Mini H scoops" loaded with paudio C15-600EL drivers for a club i work in. We are really happy with the boxes, i was suprised by the SPL and frequency response they have considering they are 15's.

But i have a problem, we run them using 2 yamaha p7000s amps, one sub on each channel.
This means about 750w peak since this is the 8 ohm power rating for this amp.

Still it seems to me that when pushed very hard with bass heavey electronic music like drum'n bass, they seem to hit thermal compression.

I didn't run them up to the clipping point and they allways sound great, but they tend do start smelling a bit after 30 minutes of constant sub torture and the amps sometimes start hitting the clipping point wihouth me pushing the gain.

So we are at a constant level, the amps are not clipping during the first few minutes but after the coils warm up, they begin peaking into clip.

Also, i can't figure out why do they have a slight burning smell when pushed hard. They are rated at 600W continuous, they have been sitting for a few years so this might me some dust on the coils or it's too much power?

Search term of the day 'power compression'
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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Paul G. OBrien

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Re: Paudio c15 600EL coil smell, too much power?
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2016, 08:16:21 pm »

Any processing inline with these? Limiter or compressor? And if so are you constantly engaging the limiter or compressor during these runs?
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Eugen Jeličić

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Re: Paudio c15 600EL coil smell, too much power?
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2016, 06:27:44 am »

Scott, i meant thermal compression, the coils get hot, impedance changes, more power results with more heat, not SPL.

Paul, yes there is a dbx2231 in the line, it has a brickwall limiter, but we try not hitting the limiter, if i see it touching red, i turn the signal down.
However this is very bass heavey music, so at moments there are very long lasting sometimes compressed sublines
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Paudio c15 600EL coil smell, too much power?
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2016, 07:15:48 am »

Scott, i meant thermal compression, the coils get hot, impedance changes, more power results with more heat, not SPL.

Paul, yes there is a dbx2231 in the line, it has a brickwall limiter, but we try not hitting the limiter, if i see it touching red, i turn the signal down.
However this is very bass heavey music, so at moments there are very long lasting sometimes compressed sublines
Axctually-power compression means LESS power is going to the drivers.

When they get hot, the impedance rises.

For the same given input voltage, the POWER is actually less going to the driver.

The "compression" in the term means the output level is dropping.  At that point, people often turn it up to get the same loudness, and kill the drivers.

When they are going into power compression, they are at their limit.
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Eugen Jeličić

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Re: Paudio c15 600EL coil smell, too much power?
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2016, 11:36:07 am »

Axctually-power compression means LESS power is going to the drivers.

When they get hot, the impedance rises.

For the same given input voltage, the POWER is actually less going to the driver.

The "compression" in the term means the output level is dropping.  At that point, people often turn it up to get the same loudness, and kill the drivers.

When they are going into power compression, they are at their limit.

That's right, and it seems to me that is what's happening here, event with the amps away from the clipping point.

But they do tend to start hitting the clipping point when i run them at a constant level for long enough with very bass heavey program.

Can thermal compression be the cause of this?
How does the amp respond to coil overheating/impedance rising. I understand the total output power of the amp will drop, but can this make it hit the clipping point earlier then when it's running a cold coil?
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Rob Spence

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Re: Paudio c15 600EL coil smell, too much power?
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2016, 11:42:47 am »

That's right, and it seems to me that is what's happening here, event with the amps away from the clipping point.

But they do tend to start hitting the clipping point when i run them at a constant level for long enough with very bass heavey program.

Can thermal compression be the cause of this?
How does the amp respond to coil overheating/impedance rising. I understand the total output power of the amp will drop, but can this make it hit the clipping point earlier then when it's running a cold coil?

The amp doesn't care.
It is a voltage source. If the impedance rises, then there is less current (Ohms Law).

The amp clipping point is likely either the input stage or when you reach the max voltage the power supply rails can do.

You basically do not have enough subbage for your type of gig. You need either more, or better subs.


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Don T. Williams

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Re: Paudio c15 600EL coil smell, too much power?
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2016, 01:06:09 pm »

+1 for Rob's comments.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Paudio c15 600EL coil smell, too much power?
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2016, 02:26:29 pm »

The smell is "pre-smoke" ....

JR
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Eugen Jeličić

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Re: Paudio c15 600EL coil smell, too much power?
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2016, 02:46:04 pm »

The amp doesn't care.
It is a voltage source. If the impedance rises, then there is less current (Ohms Law).

The amp clipping point is likely either the input stage or when you reach the max voltage the power supply rails can do.

You basically do not have enough subbage for your type of gig. You need either more, or better subs.


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So then somehow a more powerfull signal got into the amps and pushed them into clipping,

if the smell is "pre smoke smell" then it means these p7000s are too much for these drivers. They tend to start smelling even with the amp away from the clipping point if the program is continuously rich enough below 100hz.

That's weird. 750-800W peak shouldn't be too much for a driver rated at 600w continuous AES.
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Re: Paudio c15 600EL coil smell, too much power?
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2016, 02:46:04 pm »


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