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Author Topic: Speaker Management - setup within  (Read 2913 times)

Will Cash

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Speaker Management - setup within
« on: August 02, 2016, 11:11:18 am »

Hey everyone,

We have a Soundcraft Si Expression board that we're going to use to run a pair of
RCF 4Pro 6001a mains (active) and
either a pair of Orbit Shifters or TH118s which will be powered by a Crown i-Tech 8000

Obviously I have a lot of learning to do if I'm asking this question (and plan to do so), but with the DSP in the Soundcraft and the DSP in the i-Tech, will it be necessary for us to purchase a speaker management rack?

Thanks for the time...
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Scott Carneval

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Re: Speaker Management - setup within
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2016, 11:20:28 am »

Hey everyone,

We have a Soundcraft Si Expression board that we're going to use to run a pair of
RCF 4Pro 6001a mains (active) and
either a pair of Orbit Shifters or TH118s which will be powered by a Crown i-Tech 8000

Obviously I have a lot of learning to do if I'm asking this question (and plan to do so), but with the DSP in the Soundcraft and the DSP in the i-Tech, will it be necessary for us to purchase a speaker management rack?

Thanks for the time...

I don't have hands-on with the Soundcraft Expression. I assume it has an output EQ, either 31-band or a parametric. Does it have a crossover or delay module? If so you can probably make it work. The speaker has it's own limiter, so you should be fine there. You'll need to run the subs on an aux or some other separate output that is unaffected by the crossover you set for the speakers.
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Ray Aberle

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Re: Speaker Management - setup within
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2016, 11:38:08 am »

You'll need to run the subs on an aux or some other separate output that is unaffected by the crossover you set for the speakers.
Alternatively, Will, you can run your board to the I-Tech 8000, set it to power your subs, and then loop out from that to the tops. The XLR outputs on the I-Tech series are all straight throughputs; since all I-Techs had DSP built in, Crown felt it would be redundant to make the *processed* signal available on those XLR outputs.

-Ray
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Kelcema Audio
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Scott Carneval

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Re: Speaker Management - setup within
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2016, 11:45:50 am »

Alternatively, Will, you can run your board to the I-Tech 8000, set it to power your subs, and then loop out from that to the tops. The XLR outputs on the I-Tech series are all straight throughputs; since all I-Techs had DSP built in, Crown felt it would be redundant to make the *processed* signal available on those XLR outputs.

-Ray

He could, but then there would be no high-pass filter on the tops, nor any means to delay them to the subs.


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Ray Aberle

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Re: Speaker Management - setup within
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2016, 12:00:14 pm »

He could, but then there would be no high-pass filter on the tops, nor any means to delay them to the subs.
I was assuming that with powered speakers, the high-pass filter is already designed into the speaker circuitry? I am not familiar with those RCF speakers and their exact specifications. It would certainly not allow for main delays, though, unless as you suggest he runs the subs on a separate feed. Depending on the OP's deployment plan, though, he may a) not need that delay and b) desire to make setup as simply as possible.

-Ray
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Kelcema Audio
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Scott Carneval

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Re: Speaker Management - setup within
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2016, 12:10:46 pm »

I was assuming that with powered speakers, the high-pass filter is already designed into the speaker circuitry? I am not familiar with those RCF speakers and their exact specifications. It would certainly not allow for main delays, though, unless as you suggest he runs the subs on a separate feed. Depending on the OP's deployment plan, though, he may a) not need that delay and b) desire to make setup as simply as possible.

-Ray

They probably have SOME kind of HPF, but it's likely around 50hz or so with the intention of using them 'stand-alone'. I'm not aware of a switch on the back to set the HPF higher.
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Thomas Le

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Re: Speaker Management - setup within
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2016, 12:10:59 pm »

Si Expression has no "Speaker DSP management" built-in, you'll need to buy an external unit.
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Yoel Farkas

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Re: Speaker Management - setup within
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2016, 12:29:20 pm »

Si Expression has no "Speaker DSP management" built-in, you'll need to buy an external unit.
i have an Si expression and i use them for speaker management.

my suggestion would be:
Set the I-Tech for the suggested crossover point for the subs.

in the SI expression
Run everything to the mains,
Run the mains to the Matrix,
use matrix for mains, fills, subs.
you can Use parametric EQ for HPF, LPF. and you can use Delay.

i don't see any use for an outboard DSP.
 
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Yoel Farkas
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Thomas Le

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Re: Speaker Management - setup within
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2016, 12:55:06 pm »

i have an Si expression and i use them for speaker management.

my suggestion would be:
Set the I-Tech for the suggested crossover point for the subs.

in the SI expression
Run everything to the mains,
Run the mains to the Matrix,
use matrix for mains, fills, subs.
you can Use parametric EQ for HPF, LPF. and you can use Delay.

i don't see any use for an outboard DSP.
Interesting take, I originally thought OP would want the crossover functions ala x32.
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: Speaker Management - setup within
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2016, 02:00:23 pm »

There is also a separate mono output on the Expression.  I haven't played with it but there is both graphic and parametric available on all the outputs, as well as the matrix outputs Yoel refers to.

The path length for the tapped horns will be longer than the tops so you will probably need to delay the tops a bit. So the delay built into the Crown doesn't help although it could manage the LP/HP sub crossover functions.  Therefore you would need to run some arrangement of separate outputs on the Expression.  And then tweak both to do delay alignment to the backline.  Which sounds fussy to me.  Unless you want to do the aux fed sub thing, I would think a system DSP would be called for.
I'm doing the same thing, powered tops over passive subs.  I happened upon a Sabine (Xilica) processor used for a couple hundred which allowed me to retire my old BSS to back up duty.  You should be able to find something (not a DriveRack PA) decent used with a bit of looking and patience.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Speaker Management - setup within
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2016, 02:00:23 pm »


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