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Author Topic: setting up for busking  (Read 7143 times)

Graham Spice

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setting up for busking
« on: July 02, 2016, 05:31:00 pm »

I love this post:
and related:
I'm ready to do this. I have lights on order and need to start working with DMX control software. I've reviewed the various platforms available for Mac (not many) and looked at what's available for Windows and iOS.

Does anyone have any experience setting up something like the above for live busking? Have you setup something like this on M-PC, MagicQ, Sunlite Suite, QLC+, and/or Luminaire? Since most of the software manufacturers have demos, I'd love to trade templates for busking to see how you've set this up in the various software. Right now, it is hard for me to understand exactly how to setup some of these cool performance tricks outlined in the first link above and seeing it in action in a demo version would really help make these comparisons easier.

Please let me know if you have something like this that you would be willing to share. Even screenshots would be fantastic!

Thanks in advance
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Josh Rawls

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Re: setting up for busking
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2016, 01:25:17 pm »

I've been using Elation's Emulation software with a MIDIcon for the last few years. I've finally gotten to a point where I have outgrown it, basically because it is only HTP, I want an LTP system.

I just bought a used copy of Showxpress with the 512-Plus dongle. Seems to be good, but haven't had it long enough to know for sure. I need to get the MIDIcon working with it too.

I'm heavily leaning towards the Martin M-Touch. I've been playing with the software and watching the training videos. Not a simple system to learn, but once you do it is very powerful. It has a lot of great reviews and the price can't be beat!

FYI my rig is:
6 Chauvet Intimidator LED 350 Spot
4 COREpar 80 (truss wash)
4 ADJ FREQ Matrix Quad (strobe and wash)
2 RUSH Wizard

So not a huge rig but plenty for mobile DJ use for proms and such.

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Josh Rawls

Graham Spice

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Re: setting up for busking
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2016, 04:41:52 pm »

Thanks for this info, Josh. Have you had any experience setting up DMX software to control things in a similar way to the links I posted?

I'd like to learn how to put the actions that are described in the links onto a single button. Some of the actions and controls are on sliders while others are on buttons. Some buttons have multiple states as do the sliders.

These controls are really interesting and clearly benefit the savvy lighting designer/live busker. I'd like to be able to implement these ideas into my programming in the near future.

Because I'm on a Mac, I've been working with demos from MagicQ, D-Pro, Daslight 4, Lightkey, and QLC+. I've been looking at their various methods of building palettes and how to control them in a live busking situation. They all seem to make decent sense but clearly some are more intuitive. Lightkey, for example, relies almost entirely on visualization while some of the others like MagicQ feel more like a programmer's tool.

Have you created a live busking template similar to Nook’s Ultimate Rock ‘n’ Roll Punt Page? :) I'm definitely interested in how you implemented these ideas into realworld software

Thanks!
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Graham Spice

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Re: setting up for busking
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2016, 04:45:48 pm »

Along these lines, maybe this instructional product is worth it:

http://productionseminars.webs.com/apps/webstore/products/show/1544418

Anyone ever used this DVD?
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Graham Spice

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Re: setting up for busking
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2016, 04:57:00 pm »

Nook replied to a similar question in a post with this review of his punting setup:

Quote
Dedicate 3 executors (cue go buttons without faders) to position focuses. On each button I put 2 cues so everytime I press that button the lights will move, even if they are already in one of the focus positions in the cue. ie. in cue 1, your chauvets are in a big fan and the technospots are in a cross stage focus. Cue two, you simply reverse them. Put 2 sec fade time on movement cues.
In the other executors I put overide cues (crossfade ICBF/temp options on other consoles.) For instance, I always have buttons that when pressed will put all the fixtures in white and random strobe them. These buttons can be set to either toggle on or just flash as long as you have the button pressed down.Your Jarag efx can do well here too.
In some faders I put various intensities. A separate fader for each kind of fixture is great. A main fader that turns all the movers on is good. I often do an odd/even fader with two cues on it. Press the flash button and the odds turn on/evens off. Then reverse. zero time on the faders. I make sure these do NOT run on HTP as I like chases to overide the intensities of these faders. At the same time I make sure that The"release on overwritten command is turned off in the options menu for that fader. An intensity square wave in a 3 part effect is stellar. If the fader is an overide on the M1, it will go faster or slower depending on how far you push the fader up.
In other faders I put a stage and an audience ballyhoo. Generally a figure 8 pattern. Again, overide option should be used. When you bring the fader up, the lights move accordingly. If you pull it down, the lights should go back to the last preset focus cue. If you find they go to 50/50 (straight down) that means you forgot to turn off that option about "release when overwritten) or whatever they call it on the Martin desk. I forget.
I like to use executor buttons for colors. But on the M1 you don't have enough of them. This is where I bring in that cuelist window I spoke of. The M1 is smarter than most consoles in that it has a separate page where you can grab any cues from your library of cue lists, and move them into this window. I make about 10 cues that just bump everything to a solid color. Space them out so there is an empty cue in betwwen all the other boxes. Prevents you from "fat fingering" the wrong cue. Of course pushing soft keys on a screen sucks as there is no feel to it. But on the M1 it's easy to choose/select that cue and use the actual big go button to advance.
   So I then write about 20 cues that have 2 steps. One cue will have half the lites in red, the other half in yellow. Press the go button and the colors reverse. Use zero time on the cues.
    I put sine waves of color on faders. If you have the whole rig sitting in red, a fader that takes JUST the magenta flag and rolls it in and out in a 3 step effect will look great. And this same effect can be used with blues/lavs as well. Of course these color sin waves should be overides.
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Josh Rawls

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Re: setting up for busking
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2016, 09:16:07 am »

Thanks for this info, Josh. Have you had any experience setting up DMX software to control things in a similar way to the links I posted?

Have you created a live busking template similar to Nook’s Ultimate Rock ‘n’ Roll Punt Page? :) I'm definitely interested in how you implemented these ideas into realworld software

Thanks!

I have done busking a little, still not great at it. Emulation isn't very good for it as it's HTP only and it doesn't always do what I want. What I've done with it is to create pre-made "stacks" of "palettes" so I'm limited in my looks.

I haven't played with Show Xpress enough yet to know how it will do with busking. I might have a better idea in a few weeks.

It seems to me like Martin's M-Touch would be the best busking in the sub $550 price point. The upside is once you learn that you can use any of Martin's M-Series consoles, PC based or not, as they all use the exact same software.
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Josh Rawls

Jeff Lelko

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Re: setting up for busking
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2016, 12:23:40 pm »

Does anyone have any experience setting up something like the above for live busking? Have you setup something like this on M-PC, MagicQ, Sunlite Suite, QLC+, and/or Luminaire? Since most of the software manufacturers have demos, I'd love to trade templates for busking to see how you've set this up in the various software. Right now, it is hard for me to understand exactly how to setup some of these cool performance tricks outlined in the first link above and seeing it in action in a demo version would really help make these comparisons easier.

MagicQ will do this, as I'm sure will M-PC.  At this point I've just about retired my MagicQ rig (really just an old Tablet PC and Enttec dongle) in favor of ETC's Cobalt server, but that's besides the point.  The biggest thing to learn when setting up a system for busking is the difference between HTP and LTP.  This is a big deal when programming movers, and not all channels for each mover will be the same thing.  For instance, your pan/tilt/color/gobo will be patched as LTP and independent from your grand master, while the dimmer/shutter will generally be HTP so that it responds properly to your grand master and other intensity-mixing masters.

Otherwise, there tends to be no shortage of Youtube tutorials to help walk you through whichever software you choose as you learn to program it, and don't be afraid to experiment.  It'll probably take a few shows before you get everything exactly where you want it, but you'll get there!  Hope this helps! 
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Graham Spice

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Re: setting up for busking
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2016, 06:30:37 pm »

MagicQ will do this, as I'm sure will M-PC.  At this point I've just about retired my MagicQ rig (really just an old Tablet PC and Enttec dongle) in favor of ETC's Cobalt server, but that's besides the point. 
Do you think that the ETC Nomad software is suitable to do live busking shows with? All the theaters that I work in have ETC consoles (Cobalt 20 and iON) but I haven't seen them used for anything other than playing back cue stack recordings, ie "go button" shows.

One feature that I'm searching for in software is the ability to use an inexpensive USB moving fader controller like the Behringer X-Touch Compact to control the software. There appears to be a 3rd party add-on for M-PC called MPC Tools that can do this. I'm assuming that anything from ETC would require their fader wing hardware which I'm sure ain't cheap. :)
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Jeff Lelko

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Re: setting up for busking
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2016, 05:36:02 pm »

Do you think that the ETC Nomad software is suitable to do live busking shows with? All the theaters that I work in have ETC consoles (Cobalt 20 and iON) but I haven't seen them used for anything other than playing back cue stack recordings, ie "go button" shows.

One feature that I'm searching for in software is the ability to use an inexpensive USB moving fader controller like the Behringer X-Touch Compact to control the software. There appears to be a 3rd party add-on for M-PC called MPC Tools that can do this. I'm assuming that anything from ETC would require their fader wing hardware which I'm sure ain't cheap. :)

You can absolutely busk shows with Nomad.  It's important to keep in mind that Nomad is really two programs in one featuring both the ETC Eos platform as well as Cobalt, so you can choose whichever one fits your needs the best.  From my experience, to me, Eos seems better suited for the standard theatrical playback environments, whereas Cobalt is meant more for busking shows.  Both platforms can do both (and yes, Cobalt has a Go Button too), but I chose a console from the Cobalt family to fit my needs as a busking board.  It's also worth noting that Eos is more inline with industry-standard syntax, whereas Cobalt features a non-standard syntax, so a bit steeper of a learning curve to that one.  It's beautiful for busking, but again, takes some getting used to, and might be a factor if you're not going to be the sole user of the board.

The bigger issue with busking on any platform for that matter is the physical control surface.  A simple mouse will drive you crazy, so I generally say a touchscreen is needed at minimum, and a wing will really enhance your productivity.  Most ETC consoles support third party MIDI devices, so I don't see why Nomad wouldn't, however finding something that supports the specific wing you mentioned might be a taller order if you want the faders to function correctly.  Despite the advancements in audio world, flying faders are still reserved for only the higher-end consoles in light world.  Best of luck with this though!
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: setting up for busking
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2016, 09:54:28 pm »

Despite the advancements in audio world, flying faders are still reserved for only the higher-end consoles in light world.  Best of luck with this though!
Unless you are using a Martin M-Touch, where the virtual faders change values as pages change like moving faders.

BTW, Martin just announced the M-Play playback wing:  http://www.martin.com/en-us/product-details/m-play

Both an M-Touch and M-Play can be used together, which is a lot of control for not a lot of money.
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Jeff Lelko

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Re: setting up for busking
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2016, 10:02:02 pm »

Unless you are using a Martin M-Touch, where the virtual faders change values as pages change like moving faders.

BTW, Martin just announced the M-Play playback wing:  http://www.martin.com/en-us/product-details/m-play

Both an M-Touch and M-Play can be used together, which is a lot of control for not a lot of money.

That's a fair point, but I argue that LEDs and touch pads aren't the same thing as real faders.  I agree that regardless you won't do better for the money though.  I'd even pay more to have actual moving faders versus the touch pads.  That'd really put M-PC/M-Touch in a league of its own!
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: setting up for busking
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2016, 11:01:10 pm »

That's a fair point, but I argue that LEDs and touch pads aren't the same thing as real faders.  I agree that regardless you won't do better for the money though.  I'd even pay more to have actual moving faders versus the touch pads.  That'd really put M-PC/M-Touch in a league of its own!
Agreed, but until there's an 'X32 of the lighting world', I'm pretty darn happy with touch strips and $10k in my pocket.
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Samuel Sjöbergsson

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Re: setting up for busking
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2016, 05:15:59 am »

You can use a x-touch compact for faders to m-pc and that gives you real faders for not much more money than a m-touch

Skickat från min LG-H815 via Tapatalk

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Graham Spice

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Re: setting up for busking
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2016, 08:54:51 pm »

You can use a x-touch compact for faders to m-pc and that gives you real faders for not much more money than a m-touch
This is very interesting to me, Samuel. Do you or someone you know have this exact setup working with the Behringer X-Touch Compact and M-PC? I'd really love to see a short video of this in action because that's the hardware controller I'm most interested in this setup because of price.
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Samuel Sjöbergsson

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Re: setting up for busking
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2016, 05:11:01 am »

I have that setup except I dont have any artnet to dmx dongle yet and right now the computer, the x-touch and I are in three different cities but I should be able to make a video later this summer.

Skickat från min LG-H815 via Tapatalk

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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: setting up for busking
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2016, 05:11:01 am »


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