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[Brian McMahan]

Hi.

Wondering about both the quality and rating-appropriate use of the 12/3 SEOOW I just purchased.  Please help me out with a quick yay or nay, if possible.

I paid $280 for a 250ft put-up.  Southwire Seoprene.  It's from a local supply house, recommended by a residential electrician + musician. 

I wanted a 250ft spool of 12/3 SOOW.  But when I compared the price of the Cerrowire SO (at Home Depot), this stuff was $30 cheaper.  Not regretting the purchase... I just want to make sure it'll serve my needs.

Planning to use the cable on 50ft+ power drops.  Strictly for wall power to amp rack, wall power to stage, and wall power to mix position.  Terminating in quad boxes or single 5-20, depending on situation.

I apologize if this question has been answered elsewhere.  I've read a number of the AC & Grounding threads, but am still unclear re cable types OK'd for this use.

Thanks much.

Brian

[Tim McCulloch]

Hi.

Wondering about both the quality and rating-appropriate use of the 12/3 SEOOW I just purchased.  Please help me out with a quick yay or nay, if possible.

I paid $280 for a 250ft put-up.  Southwire Seoprene.  It's from a local supply house, recommended by a residential electrician + musician. 

I wanted a 250ft spool of 12/3 SOOW.  But when I compared the price of the Cerrowire SO (at Home Depot), this stuff was $30 cheaper.  Not regretting the purchase... I just want to make sure it'll serve my needs.

Planning to use the cable on 50ft+ power drops.  Strictly for wall power to amp rack, wall power to stage, and wall power to mix position.  Terminating in quad boxes or single 5-20, depending on situation.

I apologize if this question has been answered elsewhere.  I've read a number of the AC & Grounding threads, but am still unclear re cable types OK'd for this use.

Thanks much.

Brian

Yes. NEC 400.4 lists SEOOW as "hard service" (elsewhere referred to as extra-hard service) portable cord.   The "E" is for elastomer.

[Brian McMahan]

Thank you, Tim.  Much appreciated.

[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

Thank you, Tim.  Much appreciated.

SE cable is stiffer than SO which makes it slightly harder to wrap especially when it's cold, but electrically and code-wise you're fine.

[Brian McMahan]

Thank you, TJ.  I remember reading that... now.   

Just put a Pass & Seymour 5-20 on the loose end of this coil.  The collar on the connector is not happy with jacket's OD.

Can anyone recommend a good SEOOW + plug combo -- ie, for 12/3 + 20A use?  Or the same for SOOW?

WireAndCableToGo is telling me that:

SOOW ~ 0.595 inches OD
SEOOW ~ 0.592 inches OD

So I guess I need to come up with a different connector, either way.

I've used some Hubbell 5-20 connectors on 10/3 SJOOW cable... which would work in terms of outer-diameter mating... but the lack of strain relief seems like a no-no.

?

[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

Thank you, TJ.  I remember reading that... now.   

Just put a Pass & Seymour 5-20 on the loose end of this coil.  The collar on the connector is not happy with jacket's OD.

Can anyone recommend a good SEOOW + plug combo -- ie, for 12/3 + 20A use?  Or the same for SOOW?

WireAndCableToGo is telling me that:

SOOW ~ 0.595 inches OD
SEOOW ~ 0.592 inches OD

So I guess I need to come up with a different connector, either way.

I've used some Hubbell 5-20 connectors on 10/3 SJOOW cable... which would work in terms of outer-diameter mating... but the lack of strain relief seems like a no-no.

?

http://www.stagelightingstore.com/Shop-By-Brand/Hubbell-Edison-Connectors

These are the standard. They work fine on 12/3 SE/SO. Not sure what you mean about no strain relief - the outer jacket is clamped by the plug.   

BTW, I always use 5-15 male ends and 5-20 female ends. You won't always have 20A receptacles to plug into, so having 5-15 male connectors will make it easier to plug your cords in. Electrically there's no difference - the terminal is just turned sideways, so the 5-15 plug can easily handle 20A.

[Kevin Graf]

http://www.stagelightingstore.com/Shop-By-Brand/Hubbell-Edison-Connectors
............................................................
BTW, I always use 5-15 male ends and 5-20 female ends.

You're not supposed to do that.

You won't always have 20A receptacles to plug into, so having 5-15 male connectors will make it easier to plug your cords in. Electrically there's no difference - the terminal is just turned sideways, so the 5-15 plug can easily handle 20A.

It's not about the plugs & receptacles, it's about the entire circuit.

[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

You're not supposed to do that.
It's not about the plugs & receptacles, it's about the entire circuit.

Do you have a specific reference that says this is not OK?  In my area it is acceptable to put larger spec receptacles than the supply wiring as long as the OCPD is sized for the supply wiring.  My shop has several 14-50R fed by #10 and #8 wire with 30A and 40A breakers, respectively.  All were inspected and approved.

15A receptacles are commonly fed by #12 wire and 20A breakers - this is allowed as long as there are multiple receptacles on the circuit.  Even if the receptacle is a 15A circuit, it will be protected by a 15A breaker, so any extra load that could be plugged into a 20A receptacle on the end of the extension cord will still be limited by the 15A building breaker.  I suppose there's some creative way this could be a fire hazard with a particular planetary alignment, but in the grand scheme of "creative workarounds" commonly done in our industry, this is as tame as it gets.

Going the other direction though - unless the OP actually has devices with 5-20P plugs, he could sidestep this and do 5-15 on both ends.

[Kevin Graf]

"Table 210.21(B)(3) Receptacle Ratings  for Various Size Circuits"              Circuit Rating      Receptacle Rating (Amperes)      (Amperes)        15      Not over 15 20      15 or 20 30      30 40      40 or 50 50      50

[Brian McMahan]

Thanks everyone.  These comments are definitely helpful. 

I'm good on the basic logic of plug & conductor ratings... with 120v wall power at least.

Many thanks to Mike Sokol and others that have contributed to the AC and Grounding reading list, also.  Good stuff.



Brian

[Brian McMahan]

And thank you, TJ, for the link.  Wasn't aware of Stage Lighting Store previously.

Note to newbies:  The connectors TJ suggests cost less than half of what I paid for Pass & Seymour 'LeGrand' plugs (at my local Home Depot).  Also, the questionable strain-relied experience I referenced concerns a different type of Hubbell plug.


Brian

[frank kayser]

Thank you, TJ.  I remember reading that... now.   

Just put a Pass & Seymour 5-20 on the loose end of this coil.  The collar on the connector is not happy with jacket's OD.

Can anyone recommend a good SEOOW + plug combo -- ie, for 12/3 + 20A use?  Or the same for SOOW?

WireAndCableToGo is telling me that:

SOOW ~ 0.595 inches OD
SEOOW ~ 0.592 inches OD

So I guess I need to come up with a different connector, either way.

I've used some Hubbell 5-20 connectors on 10/3 SJOOW cable... which would work in terms of outer-diameter mating... but the lack of strain relief seems like a no-no.

?

I just started using a Pass and Seymour (Legrand) model PS5366-XGCM (5-20p).  I'm REALLY happy with them. 
http://www.legrand.us/passandseymour/plugs-and-connectors/straight-blade-specification-grade/gcm/plugs/ps5366xgcm.aspx#.V2_xdVdlmRs
There is a PDF online with many choices - straight, angled, twistlock, etc. etc.  Basic black and white.

The LED indicators built in indicate:Green - Grounded and properly wired
Red or Red and Green - open ground, reverse polarity
No Indicator - Open Hot, Open Neutral, and Ground reversed.




I'm using it on 10ga SEOOW cable - No need to wrestle the 10 ga conductors or the larger 10ga jacket into the plug. Everything fits beautifully and a VERY good strain relief.  12ga will be even simpler.  I like lights, and these are visible, but very unobtrusive. While it will not detect RPBG, it will detect SOME faults and give proof power is getting at least as far as that.  Use NCVT and METER those outlets, though!


BTW, I also find the SEOOW slightly lighter (in weight) than the SOOW. Flexibility at room temp is consistent with the rubber SOOW.


frank

[Stephen Swaffer]

And thank you, TJ, for the link.  Wasn't aware of Stage Lighting Store previously.

Note to newbies:  The connectors TJ suggests cost less than half of what I paid for Pass & Seymour 'LeGrand' plugs (at my local Home Depot).  Also, the questionable strain-relied experience I referenced concerns a different type of Hubbell plug.


Brian

Just a general comment regarding big box stores.  As an electrical contractor, there are things I have learned that the big box stores will do good on price wise- my trade suppliers can't compete.  These are the things you see in ads-romex/breaker panels, etc.  Other things, especially when it is apples to apples quality wise, can often be had cheaper at trade suppliers.  It is not unusual to see cut wire double what a trade supplier will charge-and some things you only buy by the roll can be purchased cheaper by the foot and you only have to buy what you need.

[ProSoundWeb Community]