ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down

Author Topic: What do you want to see in a venue spec.?  (Read 4594 times)

Jason Raboin

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 336
    • Klondike Sound
What do you want to see in a venue spec.?
« on: June 16, 2016, 08:35:16 am »

I did my first substantial installation this week and am now tasked with writing tech specs. for it.  The venue is 800 seats and does a variety of events from community theatre to national touring acts.  The stated purpose of the design was not to handle everything that the venue does, so I want the language to have accurate limitations of the system.  It will not, for example, work for the Dinosaur Jr. show apparently booked for the fall.

If you were coming in to mix, what would you want to see in the spec.?  Do you want theoretical spl based on speaker specs.?  Like - the speakers are rated at 127db continuous.  Mix is at the back of the orchestra, 55' from the pa, so you should be able to mix at 102db?  Or should I actually run pink up to "unity" and take measurements?  What about frequency response?  spl difference front to back?

When I'm touring I generally like to see a list of gear and possibly a picture of how it is arrayed.  But I am usually using well know systems that all perform far beyond my needs.  This install is based around 4 Fulcrum Acoustic CX1595 and 2 Sub215, all processed and powered by Ashly nXp amps.  It certainly punches above its weight, and I want to convey that to engineers without hyperbole.
Logged
Jason Raboin
Partner
Klondike Sound

David Simpson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 130
Re: What do you want to see in a venue spec.?
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2016, 09:24:42 am »

If I were reading that kind of info as a BE, I would not necessarily put too much trust into any published SPL number by a venue. To me it is much more about the quality of the sound at any SPL than it is just hitting a specific number at a specific distance over a specific period of time. To me, it is more important to have an accurate list of the equipment available, and room layout (including any acoustical treatment). That combined with a timely conversation with the house engineer to advance the show is most important.



~Dave
Logged

Jason Raboin

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 336
    • Klondike Sound
Re: What do you want to see in a venue spec.?
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2016, 09:37:45 am »

Unfortunately in this instance there is no house engineer, per se.  It is a union venue, so the engineer is whomever the A1 on the call is.  There are 3 or 4 engineers in the local who will be there most often, but none of them will be available for system advancing.  There is a venue TD, but he is not a sound engineer.  That is part of the reason I am trying to quantify the system's capabilities rather than use terms like "good" and "loud".  They are subjective.  102a weighted at 50'  +/- x db at y resolution seems more accurate, no?
Logged
Jason Raboin
Partner
Klondike Sound

David Simpson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 130
Re: What do you want to see in a venue spec.?
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2016, 09:45:27 am »

I would absolutely agree that the more objective and accurate you can be, the better. If the Venue TD could include good pictures of the house and system, that is always helpful too, especially if a house engineer is not available.

~Dave
Logged

Rafi Singer

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 44
    • Singer Production Company
Re: What do you want to see in a venue spec.?
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2016, 01:16:29 pm »

It may be worthwhile to include a brief blurb about the company and speakers, since while they are awesome, they still aren't as widely known as D&B, L'Acoustics, EAW, etc. Alternatively, you may wish to see if there is a known box that you can compare it to. (IE: "This PA is comparable to two EAW KF850's a side") Otherwise, pictures of the hall and the PA might be helpful.
Logged

Chris Johnson [UK]

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 446
Re: What do you want to see in a venue spec.?
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2016, 09:33:10 am »

In general, there is no such thing as too much info in a venue spec.

Presentation is everything of course. I would personally do a one-sheet headline spec, and then provide additional detail behind that. That way I can get a snapshot at a glance, or get more detailed if I want.
Logged
Riedel Communications

John Chiara

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1148
Re: What do you want to see in a venue spec.?
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2016, 12:17:27 pm »

Unfortunately in this instance there is no house engineer, per se.  It is a union venue, so the engineer is whomever the A1 on the call is.  There are 3 or 4 engineers in the local who will be there most often, but none of them will be available for system advancing.  There is a venue TD, but he is not a sound engineer.  That is part of the reason I am trying to quantify the system's capabilities rather than use terms like "good" and "loud".  They are subjective.  102a weighted at 50'  +/- x db at y resolution seems more accurate, no?

How will you do shows with no one available to advance?
Logged

Justice C. Bigler

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2550
  • back home in Oklahoma
    • My homepage
Re: What do you want to see in a venue spec.?
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2016, 12:53:30 pm »

I did my first substantial installation this week and am now tasked with writing tech specs. for it. 
Aren't you supposed to write the specs for a system BEFORE it is purchased and installed?   ???
Logged
Justice C. Bigler
www.justicebigler.com

Helge A Bentsen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 975
  • Oslo, Norway.
Re: What do you want to see in a venue spec.?
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2016, 02:50:25 pm »

Pictures of the stage including the installed sound/light gear and an extensive equipment list.

I don't care for fancy gig pictures showing the lead vocalist up close, I want a total of an empty stage with all the details please :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged

Jason Raboin

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 336
    • Klondike Sound
Re: What do you want to see in a venue spec.?
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2016, 03:16:55 pm »

Aren't you supposed to write the specs for a system BEFORE it is purchased and installed?   ???

There is no one other than me involved in the project who would understand the technical capabilities of the system.  The discussions with venue staff were more about the shows that they currently need to bring in production for that they want to be able to handle with the install.  I have been bringing in a system for the past year to handle most of their national touring acts, and they wanted a similar system.  There were strict limitation as to where the PA could go, as well as budgetary limitation, so there weren't a lot of options.

But now I need to write them something that they can give to promoters and touring BE's.
Logged
Jason Raboin
Partner
Klondike Sound

Justin Bartlett

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 177
Re: What do you want to see in a venue spec.?
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2016, 04:34:44 pm »

I did my first substantial installation this week and am now tasked with writing tech specs. for it.  The venue is 800 seats and does a variety of events from community theatre to national touring acts.  The stated purpose of the design was not to handle everything that the venue does, so I want the language to have accurate limitations of the system.  It will not, for example, work for the Dinosaur Jr. show apparently booked for the fall.

If you were coming in to mix, what would you want to see in the spec.?  Do you want theoretical spl based on speaker specs.?  Like - the speakers are rated at 127db continuous.  Mix is at the back of the orchestra, 55' from the pa, so you should be able to mix at 102db?  Or should I actually run pink up to "unity" and take measurements?  What about frequency response?  spl difference front to back?

When I'm touring I generally like to see a list of gear and possibly a picture of how it is arrayed.  But I am usually using well know systems that all perform far beyond my needs.  This install is based around 4 Fulcrum Acoustic CX1595 and 2 Sub215, all processed and powered by Ashly nXp amps.  It certainly punches above its weight, and I want to convey that to engineers without hyperbole.

I'm a touring BE, and I don't give a lot of credence to anything other than the list of gear and photos/diagrams of how they're deployed.  I've been burned too many times using other methods, so that's basically what I want.  I'm happy to listen to a venue rep tell me his thoughts about the strengths and weaknesses of the house system, but if it's not informed by the make & model of speakers, amps, and processors, it's not that helpful.
Logged

Brian Jojade

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1690
    • HappyMac Digital Electronics
Re: What do you want to see in a venue spec.?
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2016, 07:36:52 pm »

Pictures are worth a thousand words.  If you can create a photo montage of the gear and how it's deployed, many engineers can come up with a rough idea of what it is going to sound like in much better detail than a list of specs.  Of course, having both on hand wouldn't be a horrible thing to have, but if I were given the choice of seeing a vague spec list or detailed pictures, I'd take the pictures any day. Seeing pictures can tell you a lot about how a system was deployed, even more so than just a list of gear and a loudness spec at some random measured point in the room.
Logged
Brian Jojade

Jay Barracato

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2025
  • Solomons, MD
Re: What do you want to see in a venue spec.?
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2016, 09:54:07 pm »

Pics are nice but I don't want to see these new 360 views

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Logged
Jay Barracato

Pete Erskine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1395
    • Best Audio
Re: What do you want to see in a venue spec.?
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2016, 11:42:57 pm »

When I'm touring I generally like to see a list of gear...

Do not forget the list of House RF equipment, including manufacturer, model and Band.
Supply as a part of this list RF scans outside and inside the venue which are updated every 6 months.

If you don't have any House gear, state that fact but still provide scans.

See how to do scans at http://www.bestaudio.com/spectrum-scans/
Logged
Pete Erskine
917-750-1134
www.bestaudio.com
peter@bestaudio.com

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: What do you want to see in a venue spec.?
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2016, 11:42:57 pm »


Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.044 seconds with 23 queries.