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[Scott Olewiler]

---I have the ability/resources to make custom stands if need be. 

I'll beat someone else to it. Unless you've got some type of engineering degree, don't do this. No amount of money saved is worth risking injury to yourself or others.

[Scott Carneval]

I'll beat someone else to it. Unless you've got some type of engineering degree, don't do this. No amount of money saved is worth risking injury to yourself or others.

Yep


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Robert Brock]

I actually do--- and my day job is I run the manufacturing division of a multinational, multimillion dollar company.  That's the only reason I mentioned it...

I agree that normally it wouldn't be a good idea:)

And to be honest, I don't really want to....unless it's deemed absolutely necessary for whatever reason.

Also someone mentioned it's different for acdc vs local band..... I'm doing local bands- no big name stuff:)

The whole reason I started this was really less about the money and more about my buddy and I having fun and having something to do in our spare time.  If it builds into a big profit company then great.... but if it doesn't I'm ok with that too.  It all kind of snowballed from a couple charity events that I did for American Cancer society. I'm a cancer survivor and though it would be a good thing to give back in  the way of FREE services for those events.  We had so much fun doing it that we decided to start a little llc to keep going with it- we decided any money we made would get reinvested in it.  So far it's been going well doing dj and karaoke stuff mostly.  As a studio guy I wanted to get into live sound, so I did a few gigs and here we are, in case anybody was curious how I ended up here:)

[Robert Brock]

And actually, the only reason I have all these speakers is because a guy I knew was down on his luck and needed money so I bought it all from him even though at the time I had no idea what I was actually going to do with any of it

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

Robert...

The QRX boxes are nice and have the HF asymmetrically oriented at about 10 degrees down requiring less tilt, but they are still rated by the manufacturer for medium sized rooms, i.e. indoor usage.  You're probably right that they'll be better than what you have, but probably not twice as loud.  "loudness" is a bit of a nebulous term.  Bottom line is that for a sound to be PERCEIVED as twice as loud it requires a 10dB increase in output.  The math says that 3 or 6 dB will have twice as much energy, but to the listener it's gonna take 10.

I think what you need to look for in any multiple cabinet setup is pattern control/array-ability.  This basically means horn-loaded cabs with pattern control as low as you can get it, allowing you to use multiple cabinets/side with less overlap over a greater frequency range and consequent improved fidelity/intelligibility.

EAW, Community and others can be found used.  Newer stuff?   Check out the previously mentioned Danley gear and remember that the fewer cabs you can use to achieve the desired SPL, the better it should sound.

[Rick Powell]

The EV QRX 212's do have installed fly points and track that are designed for safe speaker rigging in the air, and that's a start if you want to go that route.

Before I would consider designing a custom frame or yoke for the purpose of raising speakers (and I am a licensed professional engineer and have access to a bunch of licensed structural engineers), I would contact a company like Polar Focus, once I decided what it was I intended to do, and see if there is a commercially available system that would do what I wanted, and was already engineered with safety features in mind. They could tell you how to safely rig everything and to stabilize whatever lift system you go with.

Once you start elevating everything, there are lots of advantages.  However, the cost of the stands and the rigging can easily be equal or greater than the cost of the speakers, depending on the weight of what you are raising and the height and maneuverability you want.

[Robert Brock]

I appreciate the thoughtful response, that's exactly the kind of information I've been looking for. The reason I got "twice as loud" was just from doing the math. Based on the limited specs on my current cabs, which very well may be inflated, compared to the qrx cabs there seem to be about a 10 DB difference in Peak output.

looking on the net I came across this:

Billfitzmaurice.com

They have horn loaded cabs like what I believe you're referring to. According to the specs they have some pretty crazy sensitivity and output, so it might be a viable option considering my manufacturing capabilities at possibly a lower monetary investment on my part. It might be fun/rewarding to build my own cabs too.....Unless it's all crap and just marketing hype.

Otherwise, I'll keep checking the 2nd hand market.... I might get lucky.

[Robert Brock]

I think thats good advice.... the diy option was just a passing thought.  The whole stand rigging stuff just seems like it going to be too much involved.... no longer much fun.  I could be wrong, but I think that is probably a step up from where I'm trying to be... I think I'll leave that to the big boys.  I'm happy doing the smaller gigs.... I think if I can get a system that can be stacked like I mentioned and get reasonably loud sound for local rock bands outside I would be happy... assuming that's possible.  I like the idea of horn loaded cabs so I can cluster together like I was originally failing at.

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

I appreciate the thoughtful response, that's exactly the kind of information I've been looking for. The reason I got "twice as loud" was just from doing the math. Based on the limited specs on my current cabs, which very well may be inflated, compared to the qrx cabs there seem to be about a 10 DB difference in Peak output.

looking on the net I came across this:

Billfitzmaurice.com

They have horn loaded cabs like what I believe you're referring to. According to the specs they have some pretty crazy sensitivity and output, so it might be a viable option considering my manufacturing capabilities at possibly a lower monetary investment on my part. It might be fun/rewarding to build my own cabs too.....Unless it's all crap and just marketing hype.

Otherwise, I'll keep checking the 2nd hand market.... I might get lucky.

Ahem...

BF is generally considered BS...crap and marketing hype.  Maybe OK for home use, not pro.

[Scott Holtzman]

Id like to get 2 or 4 tops with a budget of around $5000-$6000.

I don't mean to change the requirements--- its just that with the foldout stage you cant hang anything. After my post about 100 ft, i thought a bit more about it.... the stage was 28 feet wide at the gig that i wasn't quite loud enough.  the crowd wasn't 4 stage-widths away from it... so i revised it to 50-60 ft. which is more representative of what I'm trying to prepare for.

I believe my subs are loud enough, that didn't seem to be much of a problem.  what I'm getting at is, for instance, the 2-12 ev cabs I put a link up for earlier--- those I'm expecting to be possibly twice as loud as the cabs I currently have.  If I were to use 2 a side, either splayed properly to reduce interference, or stacked (as someone mentioned) with the top one upside down, does it appear that I may be loud enough for my requirement?  I understand the concept of raising the cabs and pointing downward as a way of attempting to equalize the distance between the front and the back--- so i may be able to stand mount them somehow---I have the ability/resources to make custom stands if need be.  I could probably get the horns 10-12 feet high under those circumstances- but I would rather stack them on the stage (horns probably 8 feet high) as its less complicated and let people move where they want to based on their preferred listening level (if its crazy loud up front.)


As far as insurance, I have 1/2 mil liability policy.  At the gigs I have done I have required a licensed electrician inspect/setup the power and distro box, and i run multiple 10 gauge cables from there to my meager (so far) power requirements. I haven't had any problems in that department so far...

You seem to have your shit together for someone that doesn't know how to pick speakers or price or gigs.  You are charging enough to have a licensed electrician and making money?  That's quite a few levels up the rung.

I think the question about budget and bands is valid.  So many events are different sizes.  I have found that I generally work for the band not the event so if the band plays certain venues and does a few outdoor shows.  You seem to be going at it a different way.  You want to market yourself to the event?

In that case the budget question is so relevant.  A church carnival is not going to pay what the city pays for the concerts in the park.  For outdoor shows of the size you mention one provider in town with hang a dozen Nexo boxes a side, another would bring their D&B (they do all the Rock Hall work)

WRT video, I think that may have been a promotional video but anyway if you look closely they splayed the bottom speakers real far and reverse stacked the center stack.  Best case they are only getting 3 more DB for using double the speakers so the question I propose is wouldn't it be less expensive to get a single box with more capability?  It will sure sound better.

The modularity is a bit of a trap.  Great 12" powered boxes for the bar gigs are sub $800.00  No $800 speaker is capable of any type of array.  If you buy at speaker that at least claims to have the ability to array you will be spending 3 times that.  So you have less inventory but have spent more money.

It is best to have your powered SoS inventory and have a good set of larger speakers for the bigger gigs.  the SM-80's are well thought of, maybe the powered SRX835P's

Your subs can be modular across your inventory.   Subs couple well.

I am just repeating in a different order what everyone else has told you.

[ProSoundWeb Community]