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Author Topic: What hipass filter to use  (Read 5581 times)

Merlijn van Veen

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Re: What hipass filter to use
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2016, 04:29:28 am »

Mixing different filter typologies and orders, combined with the properties of the individual speakers could result in audible frequency response ripple and possibly even transient distortion.

IMO at the end of the day, all that matters is (besides proper protection) are you IN PHASE and IN TIME at the ACOUSTICAL CROSSOVER where both speakers are EQUALY LOUD. Regardless which exotic combination might be required to achieve so.

In a steady state situation there's an infinite amount of possibilities to be in phase and NOT IN TIME.

However there's only one way to be in phase AND in time which is 0 deg phase offset.

Click here to see a video I made about the importance of matched phase slopes.


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Ivan Beaver

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Re: What hipass filter to use
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2016, 07:47:32 am »

Ok, but since most live rock/pop/country etc, the subs are typically run about 10db higher than the tops, is this really relevant?  And for an hpf on the subs, you're not crossing over to another speaker so again, is it relevant?
I would 'argue" that typically the subs are 15-20dB louder than the tops-for most musical styles (outside of the small club level).

You should run a HP filter on ALL loudspeakers.

YES subs need it to help prevent overexcursion that could occur from any number of different things.

The signal itself is the only thing most people consider.

But what about defective cables, or gear getting plugged and unplugged while "hot".

That can cause some pretty massive low freq transients that can throw a cone right out of a driver.  Especially these days with large amplifiers available.

This was not as much of a problem in the old days-when we had smaller amps that had a much more limited voltage swing.

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Ivan Beaver
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Alex Rigodanzo

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Re: What hipass filter to use
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2016, 10:25:01 am »

I would 'argue" that typically the subs are 15-20dB louder than the tops-for most musical styles (outside of the small club level).

You should run a HP filter on ALL loudspeakers.

YES subs need it to help prevent overexcursion that could occur from any number of different things.

The signal itself is the only thing most people consider.

But what about defective cables, or gear getting plugged and unplugged while "hot".

That can cause some pretty massive low freq transients that can throw a cone right out of a driver.  Especially these days with large amplifiers available.

This was not as much of a problem in the old days-when we had smaller amps that had a much more limited voltage swing.

Ivan, I wasn't asking if using a filter is relevant, I know it is. I was asking if specific to the examples I mentioned, if the issues with the L/R filter are audibly relevant.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: What hipass filter to use
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2016, 11:59:11 am »

Ivan, I wasn't asking if using a filter is relevant, I know it is. I was asking if specific to the examples I mentioned, if the issues with the L/R filter are audibly relevant.
The problem is that it is hard to answer.

Let's say you have 2 different types of speaker systems.

Let's assume that on system A of the the L/R filters end up with the best overall response.

But on system B, Butterworth filters give a better alignment.

So when you swap the filters from one system to another, you will notice a difference.

It is not that one is better than the other, but in my example-one is better suited for a particular setup than the other.

It is NOT just the filters-but ALSO the response of the particular cabinets/drivers that make up the end result.

Just like different HF drivers perform differently on different horns, it can be hard to say what is "better", since one is better for a particular setup.

Hence the reason to actually measure and try different filters to see what gives the best results for a particular setup.
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Ivan Beaver
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John L Nobile

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Re: What hipass filter to use
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2016, 01:02:54 pm »

Mixing different filter typologies and orders, combined with the properties of the individual speakers could result in audible frequency response ripple and possibly even transient distortion.

IMO at the end of the day, all that matters is (besides proper protection) are you IN PHASE and IN TIME at the ACOUSTICAL CROSSOVER where both speakers are EQUALY LOUD. Regardless which exotic combination might be required to achieve so.

In a steady state situation there's an infinite amount of possibilities to be in phase and NOT IN TIME.

However there's only one way to be in phase AND in time which is 0 deg phase offset.

Click here to see a video I made about the importance of matched phase slopes.


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPad met Tapatalk

I watched the video you linked to and it was very informative. I've always used a sine wave to align tops and bottoms but you've shown me why and how to use warble tones for better results. It makes so much sense.

Thanks Merlijn
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Mark Wilkinson

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Re: What hipass filter to use
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2016, 01:16:14 pm »

I watched the video you linked to and it was very informative. I've always used a sine wave to align tops and bottoms but you've shown me why and how to use warble tones for better results. It makes so much sense.

Thanks Merlijn

Yes, great video by Merlijn. 
I'm thinking the warble tones may be the best, easiest way to do sub alignment solely by ear.
They are the first thing I listen to after dialing in a new alignment....they can really rattle things around when cranked !
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Re: What hipass filter to use
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2016, 01:16:14 pm »


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