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Author Topic: Neutrik True1  (Read 7198 times)

Mark Cadwallader

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Re: Neutrik True1
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2016, 04:05:35 pm »

Why are you using SOOW? SJOOW is fine, (as would be SJOW if you can find it). J is rated for up to 300v.

IIRC, SO (extra hard service) is required by the NEC in a theater space where it might be walked on or have something roll over it. SJ is only allowed when protected by a raceway.  At least that's what I think Mac and others have said and cited as to being Code.
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Russell Ault

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Re: Neutrik True1
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2016, 04:58:49 pm »

Why are you using SOOW? SJOOW is fine, (as would be SJOW if you can find it). J is rated for up to 300v.

IIRC, SO (extra hard service) is required by the NEC in a theater space where it might be walked on or have something roll over it. SJ is only allowed when protected by a raceway.  At least that's what I think Mac and others have said and cited as to being Code.

I'd guess that's probably and NEC vs Canadian Electrical Code difference: "extra hard" (e.g. SOOW) is basically required by the NEC in a theatre unless the cable is somehow protected, whereas up here we're allowed to use basically anything as long as its rated for the actual load (unless it's exposed to "severe mechanical injury", in which case SO is called for).

For more discussion on this, see this topic.

-Russ
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Andrew Broughton

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Re: Neutrik True1
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2016, 05:27:16 pm »

Gotcha. It's ironic as I've seen far more code violations in the USA than I've ever seen in Canada. ;-)
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Kevin Rudolph

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Re: Neutrik True1
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2016, 09:34:56 am »

It would be cool to see a picture of your distro system.

Another gentleman here posted some pictures of his powercon PMD mounted underneath his stage box, and that was my main inspiration - credit goes to that gentleman whose name escapes me.  A seperate post here mentioned the convenience of using a bus bar, so I did that as well.  I kinda ordered the parts before I had a clear vision for what I wanted to do, then felt obliged to use them.  I wanted the front panel to work more or less like a power strip, and I'm not crazy about the jumper thing, so I found some DPDT toggles (On/Off/On) rated 20a @ 250v and use the lower position as a "bus" only being fed by the red/stage left/audience right channel.  The up position is "local".  I did add a ring connector to one of the switches to throw another line to the ground bus - I may end up getting rubber tips for the switches but I wanted a more protection than just hoping the current would pass throw a paint scuff.  Meters well, anyways.

The color labeling was an after thought.  My first couple outings with it, I found it too challenging to direct my helpers where I wanted what plugged into and where to chase down problems.  I color coded the channels as well as my Nema 5-15p (not edisons!) via Leviton 5266 plugs w/ the colored Clamp-1Y.  That has helped quite a bit.

If I had to do it over again, I would make some changes to the rear panel (and make more professional looking face plate decals).  I may actually rebuild it over my winter slow period.  I would replace the inlets with the inlet outlet combo so that I could run a 20a backlink stringer through the ground bus without chewing up three spots on the front panel.  Remove one switch, as I only really need three and can have one channel always "on".  I'd love to find a small amp meter/volt meter to plop in there w/ a four way rotary to be able to monitor things from time to time.

I know it seems like a lot of junk to cram into a 1u enclosure - I make a real effort to pack as small as possible.  I live and work in the city, need to park in tight spots most of the time, so 99% of my gigs I rock a Ford Transit Connect.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 09:56:31 am by Kevin Rudolph »
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Kevin Rudolph

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Re: Neutrik True1
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2016, 09:52:53 am »

IMO, Neutrik pulled a boner on this one. They're good for 20a USA, but will not take code-compliant SOOW or SEOOW.  I tried getting a reamer for 5/8" and open up the collet, but the way that yellow "seal" works, the reamer ended up a no-go.   So close. 
I thought of shaving the wire jacket to fit, but thought of the problems that might cause - stress right there at the connector, on the wire and/or jacket.


Unless Neutrik comes up with a larger collet/clamp... Pick your poison - 14ga SOOW heavier jacket or 12ga SJOOW larger conductors.  Or the old blue/white Powercon.


As an aside, funny thing when I cut plug off the "European" IEC cable that QSC supplies - I was expecting slightly smaller conductors (as they were for 240v) but also found no "fillers" or paper in the cable - just three conductors and the molded overjacket. Without the filler, they are smaller diameter, and much more flexible.  So why do the European cables get made up differently that the US cables?  Figure a hypothetical 12ga SOOW without the fillers probably could be a small enough diameter - granted the pull strength would be strictly on the copper vs on the fillers.


frank

If I were to postulate, I would suggest the German engineers original design was with European electrical system in mind - therefore the goal was 16a/250v.  It may have been submitted to the UL and they may have been surprised by the 20a/120v rating, but that's what it's UL approved for so they slapped it on there.  Who knows?  Maybe our new friend at Nuetrik will enlighten us.

I did the same thing to my "European" blue locking iec cables and noticed the same thing.  I also bought some "v-link" 1' locking iec's to make adapters and they were constructed exactly the same way - no filler but lots of powdered release agent on the inner jackets.  To my recollection, even the Nema 5-15p to IEC C13 I've broke open were constructed that way.  Most likely in China for as cheaply as possible.  I know there are different specifications for appliance leads - these may fall under that category.
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James Feenstra

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Re: Neutrik True1
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2016, 07:28:49 pm »

Gotcha. It's ironic as I've seen far more code violations in the USA than I've ever seen in Canada. ;-)
Probably because we get inspected a LOT more than in the US....like, every outdoor event in Ontario has ESA inspections on power, at bare minimum from generator to main distribution.

I've seen inspectors go through every piece of gear to look for electrical approval stickers (CSA, ETL, TUV, etc) as well, especially on companies that are known to buy stuff direct from China frequently and/or cheap out proper equipment. They're given the option to remove it from the show or not continue the show....stops a lot of smaller companies from severely undercutting the bigger guys, at least on the outdoor events.
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Russell Ault

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Re: Neutrik True1
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2016, 12:33:09 am »

Probably because we get inspected a LOT more than in the US....like, every outdoor event in Ontario has ESA inspections on power, at bare minimum from generator to main distribution.

I've seen inspectors go through every piece of gear to look for electrical approval stickers (CSA, ETL, TUV, etc) as well, especially on companies that are known to buy stuff direct from China frequently and/or cheap out proper equipment. They're given the option to remove it from the show or not continue the show....stops a lot of smaller companies from severely undercutting the bigger guys, at least on the outdoor events.

I would guess this probably varies by region; I'm pretty sure nothing I've ever done (outside of the major touring shows, anyway) has ever been looked at by an inspector. Heck, I'm not even 100% sure who the AHJ would be here, at least for power.

-Russ
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dave briar

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Re: Neutrik True1
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2016, 06:36:58 pm »

Please excuse a slight threadjack: The nine-month old FBT montitors at my normal venue came with True1 power cables and the strain relief on one cable 14/3 (SJOOW <-- I believe) loosened such that one of the connections failed. My "helper" twisted the plug 180 degrees to show me and sparks flew. I took the cable home and rewired it to Neutrik specs only to find out that the cables for the other three monitors were all wired reverse polarity -- hot/black wire to the "N" lug on the plug and white/neutral to the "L" lug. Other than making it slightly easier to make the connections -- the Neutrik specs indicate to cut the green/ground lead 3mm longer as it needs to be tucked between the other two when connecting but connecting reverse polarity aligns the order of the three leads in the jacket with the plug more easily -- I can't think of any reason the "factory" would have done this.  Has anyone ever seen this before? 

BTW, I added about one inch of heat-shrink tube to the jacket before reconnecting which seemed to make the strain relief more secure.

    ..dave
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Neutrik True1
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2016, 07:06:33 pm »

Please excuse a slight threadjack: The nine-month old FBT montitors at my normal venue came with True1 power cables and the strain relief on one cable 14/3 (SJOOW <-- I believe) loosened such that one of the connections failed. My "helper" twisted the plug 180 degrees to show me and sparks flew. I took the cable home and rewired it to Neutrik specs only to find out that the cables for the other three monitors were all wired reverse polarity -- hot/black wire to the "N" lug on the plug and white/neutral to the "L" lug. Other than making it slightly easier to make the connections -- the Neutrik specs indicate to cut the green/ground lead 3mm longer as it needs to be tucked between the other two when connecting but connecting reverse polarity aligns the order of the three leads in the jacket with the plug more easily -- I can't think of any reason the "factory" would have done this.  Has anyone ever seen this before? 

BTW, I added about one inch of heat-shrink tube to the jacket before reconnecting which seemed to make the strain relief more secure.

    ..dave

This sounds like the "factory" not paying attention to detail to make a quality product.  Simply flipping the sjoow end for end would align the wires better as well.  If you take a piece of sj or so and look at opposite ends, one end wil be black-white-green clockwise, the opposite clockwise. Typically, orienting the wire correctly makes wiring connectors simple.




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Steve Swaffer

dave briar

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Re: Neutrik True1
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2016, 07:13:22 pm »

This sounds like the "factory" not paying attention to detail to make a quality product.  Simply flipping the sjoow end for end would align the wires better as well.  If you take a piece of sj or so and look at opposite ends, one end wil be black-white-green clockwise, the opposite clockwise. Typically, orienting the wire correctly makes wiring connectors simple.
Good point on reversing the cable. However, the other end was a "molded on" Edison so maybe this was a multi-stage mixup. Maybe FBT bought some miswired Edison cables as "seconds" and just continued the miswiring. Still pretty disappointing on a $1,500 monitor.

    ..dave
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Re: Neutrik True1
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2016, 07:13:22 pm »


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