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Author Topic: gig problems and customer rebate  (Read 9180 times)

Brian Jojade

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Re: gig problems and customer rebate
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2016, 05:58:18 PM »

But, if onsite, my console is working perfectly and something happens there (NOT my fault, like a server trips and spills 4 cups of wine on the board) -- that's the type of situation I think Brian was referring to. If the client wants to pay for a backup board to be onsite in case of something catastrophic like that, they can choose to do so. (Re-reading his post, it looks like he does talk about things like a board failure not caused by other's actions, so I might be a bit off here.)

Both scenarios can come into play.  If a customer is renting a system from us, a piece at a time, and builds an equipment list to rent, if the console fails mid show, no charge for that, but no refund for the rest of the gear rented. The option to rent a spare is provided, kind of like buying insurance. If the gear gets damaged onsite, then liability for the cost of repair would be determined by who caused the damage.  If I spilled a drink on a console and it stopped the show, now we're talking a different issue than if someone else did it, or the console just decided to die on its own.

If I'm running the show as an entire package, I ALWAYS have a plan in place for each piece of gear, knowing what kind of workaround would be necessary to get the show back and functional if said piece of gear were to be taken out of service.  Sometimes functional does not mean fully operational, but enough to get through the show.  Again, this should be worked out with the client to see what level of insurance they want to pay for.  High end clients will pay for full redundancy in equipment so as to have immediate backups online for such issues.  If your budget is lower, then that is the risk the client takes when something goes wrong.
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Roland Clarke

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Re: gig problems and customer rebate
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2016, 03:49:53 AM »

Both scenarios can come into play.  If a customer is renting a system from us, a piece at a time, and builds an equipment list to rent, if the console fails mid show, no charge for that, but no refund for the rest of the gear rented. The option to rent a spare is provided, kind of like buying insurance. If the gear gets damaged onsite, then liability for the cost of repair would be determined by who caused the damage.  If I spilled a drink on a console and it stopped the show, now we're talking a different issue than if someone else did it, or the console just decided to die on its own.

If I'm running the show as an entire package, I ALWAYS have a plan in place for each piece of gear, knowing what kind of workaround would be necessary to get the show back and functional if said piece of gear were to be taken out of service.  Sometimes functional does not mean fully operational, but enough to get through the show.  Again, this should be worked out with the client to see what level of insurance they want to pay for.  High end clients will pay for full redundancy in equipment so as to have immediate backups online for such issues.  If your budget is lower, then that is the risk the client takes when something goes wrong.

You wouldn't get away with that this side of the pond.  Law here is that you are hired to provide your service with kit.  Should your desk fail you would lose in court on the basis of your failure to provide the service.  Back up and redundancy would be your responsibility, short of external factors such as power outage, weather, etc.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: gig problems and customer rebate
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2016, 06:00:38 AM »

You wouldn't get away with that this side of the pond.  Law here is that you are hired to provide your service with kit.  Should your desk fail you would lose in court on the basis of your failure to provide the service.  Back up and redundancy would be your responsibility, short of external factors such as power outage, weather, etc.

I take it prices in the UK are much higher for this level of guarantee.  Seriously, where does it end?  Are we expected to keep 100% redundancy on site?  As hot, on line spares?

My problem is that in your scenario a client is "buying an expected outcome" rather than hiring a service that can be affected by many variables.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2016, 06:04:01 AM by Tim McCulloch »
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Keith Broughton

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Re: gig problems and customer rebate
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2016, 07:06:00 AM »

I take it prices in the UK are much higher for this level of guarantee.  Seriously, where does it end?  Are we expected to keep 100% redundancy on site?  As hot, on line spares?

My problem is that in your scenario a client is "buying an expected outcome" rather than hiring a service that can be affected by many variables.
How can we be expected to provide a buch of backup equipment at the "race to the bottom" pricing we see these days?
Oh you want at $25,000 show for $15,000? Oh, and you want it perfect?
Riiiiigt....try that at your local Mercedes dealer and let me know how it goes.

Anyway, in this particular case, it wasn't a complete gig failure but rather an adjustment to the show flow to complete all the video playback requirements.
In the end, all content and show components were completed and it ended up with 1 of the 2  projectors not coming back online and only added about 10 minutes to the total run time.
I found out how much was held back from the final payment for the show and, in my opinion, it was way more than the circumstances dictated.
When the customer holds the money, there is not a lot that can be done.

Of course, when we tested the equipment in the shop.....no fault found ::)
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Roland Clarke

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Re: gig problems and customer rebate
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2016, 03:47:46 AM »

How can we be expected to provide a buch of backup equipment at the "race to the bottom" pricing we see these days?
Oh you want at $25,000 show for $15,000? Oh, and you want it perfect?
Riiiiigt....try that at your local Mercedes dealer and let me know how it goes.

Anyway, in this particular case, it wasn't a complete gig failure but rather an adjustment to the show flow to complete all the video playback requirements.
In the end, all content and show components were completed and it ended up with 1 of the 2  projectors not coming back online and only added about 10 minutes to the total run time.
I found out how much was held back from the final payment for the show and, in my opinion, it was way more than the circumstances dictated.
When the customer holds the money, there is not a lot that can be done.

Of course, when we tested the equipment in the shop.....no fault found ::)

You might be able to include a non performance limiting your liability to your fee, however, you can't charge for your microphones and mixer hire if your speakers pack up and stop the show.  Although prices are low, this is not unreasonable.  They hire you to amplify their gig,  you want to be paid for the fact that half your gear is working even if your speakers dump the show?  If this is the case in the USA, I'm surprised.
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Re: gig problems and customer rebate
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2016, 03:47:46 AM »


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