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Author Topic: EW300 G3 incompatible with 3rd party RF distro?  (Read 3233 times)

Hayden J. Nebus

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EW300 G3 incompatible with 3rd party RF distro?
« on: May 25, 2016, 02:23:56 pm »

Today we have a single EW300G3 (group G) receiver on stage along with 20 channels of Shure wireless, UR/ULXD  (H4,J5, and J50) . In spite of our best efforts at a distributed antenna system, it only wants to work with its factory 1/4 waves.

We have a pair of UA860 dipole antennas feeding a cascaded pair of UA845 distros. RG8 to antennas and rg58 between rack components. We're not circling the globe either, 30 ft antenna cables and 18-36" rack jumpers.

The G3 set is tuned to a frequency which lands within the Shure J5  band, 59x.xMHz, with 5dB squelch on the rx. All coordinated in Workbench, there is >1Mhz space on either side of the channel, and the surrounding noisefloor is -100dBm or better.

Scanning the J5 band from a UR+ receiver on the same distro shows the G3 transmitter happily @-50dBm. When connected to the distro, the G3 receiver drops RF like it's hot. Connected to the cascade out of the UR+ we just scanned with, no change. Swapped Rg58 jumps, swapped distro outputs, no change. Connect the tiny 1/4 waves, and all is well.

 Sennheiser insists that the wideband 400-900MHz antenna and distro system must not be compatible with their set, despite the fact I'm 99.9% certain our distro is delivering RF at an appropriate level to the receiver based on said scan. To their credit, it does work with the duckies. 

Interestingly enough on the tx side this same set seems to be very touchy around the handheld's bottom antenna fin, as in drop -20dBm when you reach to turn it off. Comparatively, a UR2 HH looks to lose about 3dBm when given a death grip around the power/antenna fin.

Shouldn't potluck RF distros generally work so long as operating within their passband? I've definitely seen it done before. Are we just idiots for trying? Please someone illuminate me!   



     
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Pete Erskine

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Re: EW300 G3 incompatible with 3rd party RF distro?
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2016, 02:29:53 pm »

Today we have a single EW300G3 (group G) receiver on stage along with 20 channels of Shure wireless, UR/ULXD  (H4,J5, and J50) . In spite of our best efforts at a distributed antenna system, it only wants to work with its factory 1/4 waves.

We have a pair of UA860 dipole antennas feeding a cascaded pair of UA845 distros. RG8 to antennas and rg58 between rack components. We're not circling the globe either, 30 ft antenna cables and 18-36" rack jumpers.

1. Does actual cable from DA to EW300 work in another RX?
2. Does UA860 directly into EW300 work?
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Jens Palm Bacher

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Re: EW300 G3 incompatible with 3rd party RF distro?
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2016, 02:53:00 pm »

How does the G3 rf metre looks with TX turned off, with 1/4 waves and when connected through the distro?
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Hayden J. Nebus

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Re: EW300 G3 incompatible with 3rd party RF distro?
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2016, 03:12:27 pm »

thanks Pete.
1. Does actual cable from DA to EW300 work in another RX? Yes.
2. Does UA860 directly into EW300 work? will check this with a spare pair of 860 direct to the rx shortly. UPDATE, yes UA860 direct to rx worked fine, with both operational pair and spare pair.

Jens,
In both cases, with tx off, RF meters below bottom of scale.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 05:47:37 pm by Hayden J. Nebus »
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Jason Glass

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Re: EW300 G3 incompatible with 3rd party RF distro?
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2016, 04:10:06 pm »

Did you try swapping the G3 to a different UA845 output? It could be that one has gone bad.

You might also try using outputs from the 1st UA845 rather than the cascaded unit. Sometimes that extra 3dB amp stage at the Cascade out can be just enough to raise the CNR noise component to an intolerable level.

Sent from my mobile phone. Please excuse the inevitable spelling and grammatical errors.

Ike Zimbel

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Re: EW300 G3 incompatible with 3rd party RF distro?
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2016, 12:29:29 pm »

Did you try swapping the G3 to a different UA845 output? It could be that one has gone bad.

You might also try using outputs from the 1st UA845 rather than the cascaded unit. Sometimes that extra 3dB amp stage at the Cascade out can be just enough to raise the CNR noise component to an intolerable level.

I have had Sennheiser systems that weren't happy with outputs from Shure antenna distros in the past. One thing you can try, a bit of a variation from Jason's suggestion, is to use the cascade output to feed the EW300. The Cascade output has less gain on it than the output ports.
"Models: UA845 US, UK, E:
3 dB typical, 0 dB to 3.5 dB from antenna input (Output ports 14) 1 dB typical, 1.6 dB to +1.8 dB from antenna input (Cascade port)"
Best, Ike
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Neil White

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Re: EW300 G3 incompatible with 3rd party RF distro?
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2016, 03:17:09 pm »

Could this be related to the DC power circuitry in the G3 that allow powering the receivers from an ASA1? I have seen rf performance of a distro suffer when a receiver had DC bias on its antenna inputs.
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Michael Fisher

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Re: EW300 G3 incompatible with 3rd party RF distro?
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2016, 11:12:55 am »

Today we have a single EW300G3 (group G) receiver on stage along with 20 channels of Shure wireless, UR/ULXD  (H4,J5, and J50) . In spite of our best efforts at a distributed antenna system, it only wants to work with its factory 1/4 waves.

[...]

Shouldn't potluck RF distros generally work so long as operating within their passband? I've definitely seen it done before. Are we just idiots for trying? Please someone illuminate me!   

 

Hi Hayden, did you ever get this sorted? We're looking at using a Lectrosonics distro with EW300 G3 equipment, and would love to learn what you found out.  :)
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Karl Winkler

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Re: EW300 G3 incompatible with 3rd party RF distro?
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2016, 05:43:16 pm »

Hi Hayden, did you ever get this sorted? We're looking at using a Lectrosonics distro with EW300 G3 equipment, and would love to learn what you found out.  :)

Yes, I'm interested in the outcome of the OP's issue as well.

Whenever I've heard of a problem like this, DC bias is usually involved, or the passband of the distro does not completely overlap that of the receivers. Finally, too much gain in the antenna system prior to the distro can cause problems too, by raising the noise floor and the intermods.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2016, 09:43:37 am by Karl Winkler »
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Re: EW300 G3 incompatible with 3rd party RF distro?
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2016, 05:43:16 pm »


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