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Author Topic: db technologies line array offerings  (Read 28026 times)

thirtha chengappa

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Re: db technologies line array offerings
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2016, 09:50:22 PM »

Funny thing, I went to see one of my bands at a local casino Friday night. The club had db T4's flown, two per side with unknown subs beneath the stage. It was horrifyingly bad sound. At the front of the room it was just shrill and honk. At the back, mostly honk.

I'm thinking it was just a clueless BE (works for the casino - forget about even talking to them).

I just returned from a trip to S. Cali were I heard nothing but bad sound. After Friday night I was just tired of listening to any live music. Fortunately I had a gig in one of my clubs last night, and the band sounded incredible (50% them, 50% me) LOL!

The only time I've hear Line Array systems sound remotely good has been at large outdoor shows, with pro sound companies operating them. All of the smaller, local venues in my area with LA's don't sound good at all.

Half knowledge is dangerious

let me explain,

It so happened that I was to rig a 12 per side DVA T4 and handle the mix. I used the DVA composer and got the angle to be deployed, but failed to follow the DSP setting. The first hour of the show was disastrous for me. Lucky for me, the crowd was thin. I knew something was wrong, but I could not put a finger on it. Any hour after, I had a epiphany, but the rig was already flying up on a truss bar 17 FT high. God was kind, The line was close enough for an adventurous and enterprising roadie to climb up the truss bar to change the DSP setting on the modules, what followed was an absolute revelation to me. The sound changed  to an extent, akin to night and day. It taught  me an important lesson, More numbers means more even dispersion, and the theory that  - "when you add more units you gain SPL via coupling" is true. Importantly, I was a monkey trying to fly a plane.

Don't blame the rig. Blame the human behind it.

Moral of the story - its dangerous to have half knowledge, and work with line arrays.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: db technologies line array offerings
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2016, 11:00:49 PM »

Half knowledge is dangerious

let me explain,

Importantly, I was a monkey trying to fly a plane.


I believe the phrase is Monkey trying to fuck a football.

We wonder why people don't want to hand out access to controllers. 
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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: db technologies line array offerings
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2016, 11:27:27 PM »

Half knowledge is dangerious

let me explain,

It so happened that I was to rig a 12 per side DVA T4 and handle the mix. I used the DVA composer and got the angle to be deployed, but failed to follow the DSP setting. The first hour of the show was disastrous for me. Lucky for me, the crowd was thin. I knew something was wrong, but I could not put a finger on it. Any hour after, I had a epiphany, but the rig was already flying up on a truss bar 17 FT high. God was kind, The line was close enough for an adventurous and enterprising roadie to climb up the truss bar to change the DSP setting on the modules, what followed was an absolute revelation to me. The sound changed  to an extent, akin to night and day. It taught  me an important lesson, More numbers means more even dispersion, and the theory that  - "when you add more units you gain SPL via coupling" is true. Importantly, I was a monkey trying to fly a plane.

Don't blame the rig. Blame the human behind it.

Moral of the story - its dangerous to have half knowledge, and work with line arrays.

We sold an RCF HDL20a rig and when the client picked it up I went over DVA Composer and the myriad ways to screw up the sound by not using the correct presets on the speakers.  When I heard it the next day I just shook my head.

BTW, I've deployed hangs of 12 T4.  It's a whole different animal than shorter deployments.
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Don T. Williams

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Re: db technologies line array offerings
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2016, 11:50:38 PM »

My take on the Vio is that it is an improved and more powerful wood cabinet version of the RCF HD20.  Same configuration.  A lot of people like the HD20. With the marketing split between RCF and sister company DB Technologies, this was an opportunity to take what was liked about the HD20 and change what customers thought could be improved upon.

We have (20) T12's and (4) each T4's and T8's.  We get nothing bet compliments of the system, but Thirtha is correct that you need to pay attention to the settings dictated by the Composer software.  When the software suggestions are followed and they are flown, they are great little boxes.

We did stack three per side on top of subs for one event and were very disappointed.  I must say it was no worse that other line arrays deployed in the same manner.  I have just never heard a ground stacked (or stacked on stage or subs) line array sound very good.  They really need to be flown!   
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Don T. Williams

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Re: db technologies line array offerings
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2016, 12:01:04 AM »

Oops, I should have said RCF HDL20A in the past above.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: db technologies line array offerings
« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2016, 03:21:39 AM »

My take on the Vio is that it is an improved and more powerful wood cabinet version of the RCF HD20.  Same configuration.  A lot of people like the HD20. With the marketing split between RCF and sister company DB Technologies, this was an opportunity to take what was liked about the HD20 and change what customers thought could be improved upon.

We have (20) T12's and (4) each T4's and T8's.  We get nothing bet compliments of the system, but Thirtha is correct that you need to pay attention to the settings dictated by the Composer software.  When the software suggestions are followed and they are flown, they are great little boxes.

We did stack three per side on top of subs for one event and were very disappointed.  I must say it was no worse that other line arrays deployed in the same manner.  I have just never heard a ground stacked (or stacked on stage or subs) line array sound very good.  They really need to be flown!

I was very pleased with three T4's (the limit for the pole mount) on Applied crank lifts up 14'.  It was not a large room.  We set the switches and the gains properly and set the downtilt to 50% of the room tilt.  Clearly we didn't have pattern control very low but it was a huge step up from the KW-153's we ran at the event last year.  Next test is to use the same stands with truss and hang 4 boxes per side under the truss.  I have not figured out a good way to attach the frame to the truss yet.

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Don T. Williams

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Re: db technologies line array offerings
« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2016, 01:33:35 PM »

Scott, I think even 14 feet helps.  When I have listened to "line array" cabinets at ear level or even head level (as when stacked on subs or a stage) I have never like the sound.

One of the nice things about T4's and T8's is how light weight they are.  You can fly four or more cabinets pretty safely on small lifts. 

I also owned KW 153's but I always used them with the highs and mids above head level to get better sound quality and coverage.  Line array cabinets seem to benefit from (or require) more height to really start sounding good.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: db technologies line array offerings
« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2016, 03:32:25 PM »

It is much easier to get the T4's up in the air than the 153's.  If the room has the height to get them up 12' or better the even coverage and vocal clarity are noticable. 

You are more than likely correct if I got the 153's to the same height with a little down tilt I would probably accomplish the same thing.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Ivan Beaver

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Re: db technologies line array offerings
« Reply #28 on: July 04, 2016, 03:56:44 PM »

More numbers means more even dispersion, and the theory that  - "when you add more units you gain SPL via coupling" is true.
That is exactly what most people DO NOT understand about line arrays.

If you have a given audience area-it takes a certain number of a particular box to try to cover that area evenly.

 NO MATTER how loud the performer needs to be. It may take 16 boxes for light jazz AND for hard rock.

You CANNOT use fewer boxes-just because the performer is not as loud.

UNLESS you simply don't care about how even the coverage is.  Sadly many people fall into this category.

Hence the reason there are sooo many bad sounding line arrays out there.

Yes more boxes will get you louder-but not as much as people would want to believe.

Generally a line array will get about 3dB louder every time you double the number of boxes.

So if you have 8 boxes and want it to be just a tad louder- you have to go to 16 boxes.

This is due to the way the behave and they do not sum together as much as people want them to.

People simply do not understand what is going on with them.  But they think that with "magic DSP" all can be fixed.  Wrong.



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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
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thirtha chengappa

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Re: db technologies line array offerings
« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2016, 02:47:06 AM »

Yes more boxes will get you louder-but not as much as people would want to believe.
Generally a line array will get about 3dB louder every time you double the number of boxes.
So if you have 8 boxes and want it to be just a tad louder- you have to go to 16 boxes.
This is due to the way the behave and they do not sum together as much as people want them to.
People simply do not understand what is going on with them.  But they think that with "magic DSP" all can be fixed.  Wrong.

Rightly, and well said. Line arrays do not sum together over the entire frequency as we would like to believe. The coupling happens only in the lower spectrum of the frequency range. Getting the HF section to couple is a tedious task. This is why you will find that Anya by EAW features 14 horn 1" 35 MM V.C. compression drivers. as you go higher the frequency range. you need to space the drivers extremely close in order to get them to couple better.

The K5 has a low frequency correction rotary switch and a MF - HF correction switch to take care of the effects of coupling. The T4 increases the HF output to compensate for the effects of coupling of the low frequencies. More the number of box added, higher the HF output necessary to offset the effect of summing.
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Re: db technologies line array offerings
« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2016, 02:47:06 AM »


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