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Author Topic: So disappointing - generators didn't arrive..  (Read 37112 times)

Mike Santarelli

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Re: So disappointing - generators didn't arrive..
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2016, 12:55:11 am »

This is most certainly a low voltage issue. I had this happen at a festival with srx835p and 828's. They would stop putting out sound and the meters wouldnt show anything. One would hit and the others would shut off. Hooked up a generator and no issues.  Had a problem at the same place with crown itechs. They were power cycling. Read up on it and it's definitely voltage.
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Daniel Levi

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Re: So disappointing - generators didn't arrive..
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2016, 02:33:02 am »

I'm not sure about stateside, however we are lucky in the uk as we have predominantly ring mains that mean we can take 13amps each off two adjacent sockets 26 in all.
Just a little f.y.i. if you didn't already know only certain sockets (i.e. MK metal sockets) can handle the full 26 amps from a double socket. The standard cheaper plastic sockets limit is much lower.
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Roland Clarke

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Re: So disappointing - generators didn't arrive..
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2016, 05:03:30 am »

Just a little f.y.i. if you didn't already know only certain sockets (i.e. MK metal sockets) can handle the full 26 amps from a double socket. The standard cheaper plastic sockets limit is much lower.

As far as I know the plastic doubles in the uk must be able to handle a full 26amps as that is what a 30amp ring main will put out (fused appropriately).  If the socket was inappropriate for the full 26 (13 amp per socket) it would be a considerable fire hazard and I'm sure that wouldn't meet uk code. 

I've just checked MK site and indeed it is rated at 13 amp per socket on the outlet.
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Daniel Levi

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Re: So disappointing - generators didn't arrive..
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2016, 06:21:49 am »

As far as I know the plastic doubles in the uk must be able to handle a full 26amps as that is what a 30amp ring main will put out (fused appropriately).  If the socket was inappropriate for the full 26 (13 amp per socket) it would be a considerable fire hazard and I'm sure that wouldn't meet uk code. 

I've just checked MK site and indeed it is rated at 13 amp per socket on the outlet.

Heres a bit more info:
 http://community.screwfix.com/threads/26-amps-for-a-standard-twin-3-pin-socket.156390/ 
the MK ones are indeed rated for 26A, cheaper sockets probably are not. Also the ring has to be up to supplying the power, some, again, are not.
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: So disappointing - generators didn't arrive..
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2016, 10:10:42 am »

I had obviously been fortunate to never have come across this so I was confused. I always thought that too much draw would just trip breakers.
Once I saw a couple of responses here that indicated this can happen, it was help to me at least knowing why it occurred and that I wasn't having to deal with faulty equipment. 

When we got there we should have insisted on him getting the generators but we left him making phone calls while we started unloading and setting up. He told us that no-one had the inverter gens at short notice but we could run cables. I knew right away we would probably have issues and should have walked away.
Even though it was his screw up, the crowd kept looking at us each time the PA went off. So it now reflects on us.
When Chris's band went up and it happened, he apologized over the PA and was kind to the bar owner in saying that the 'generator people' let him down. But I'm sure folks thought it was us - especially the ones who had already left.
Lesson learned......

On the positive side...Even though I wasn't able to work at the levels I am used to, I am very impressed with just how much volume I was able to get out of the SRX system considering it was being strangled to death !
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A young child says to his mother, "Mom, when I grow up I'm going to be a musician." She replies, "Well honey, you know you can't do both."

Ivan Beaver

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Re: So disappointing - generators didn't arrive..
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2016, 10:37:44 am »

I had obviously been fortunate to never have come across this so I was confused. I always thought that too much draw would just trip breakers.

And that is how we all LEARN.

And use that experience to try to avoid it in the future.

The problem was that you were not blowing the breakers, because the extension cords were dropping the voltage-which was increasing the current draw due to the extra series resistance.

I would suggest getting some larger extension cables to keep with you in such cases.  Larger cable will have less loss. 

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Jerome Malsack

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Re: So disappointing - generators didn't arrive..
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2016, 10:49:07 am »

Remember also a breaker is a slow blow device.  Peaks will average in and not cause the tripping breaker.  Peaks is where the power will dip and the amps will go into protection.   1800 watts is 15 amp GFCI.  2400 watts is 20 amp.  I run three amps that add up to 12 amps total but that leaves very little room for the backline on the 15 amp breaker. 

We have also been at the far end of a power line to the venue with only one or two others on the end of the line.  Here we could see the addition of the sound system affecting the venue and brown out at the other two places because it was night and with the peaks we observed the other sites lights were dropping also.  Something we could not fix and the local power company has not addressed. 
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Roland Clarke

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Re: So disappointing - generators didn't arrive..
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2016, 12:54:02 pm »

It has to be pointed out that with PA systems it's a whole different thing from the kettle and toaster scenario.  I've run some seriously loud sound from a generator where the calculated max was aroun 20 amps, however, due to dynamics of the music, in real terms this averaged 8-10 amps.  Obviously this was not the main stage at Glastonbury, however, it was loud enough to keep a couple of thousand people involved.
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: So disappointing - generators didn't arrive..
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2016, 01:01:38 pm »

And that is how we all LEARN.

And use that experience to try to avoid it in the future.

The problem was that you were not blowing the breakers, because the extension cords were dropping the voltage-which was increasing the current draw due to the extra series resistance.

I would suggest getting some larger extension cables to keep with you in such cases.  Larger cable will have less loss.

The one we used was his 10 gauge (which I previously had insisted he purchased when we first started doing these shows- thank goodness).....but obviously it was still not enough!!.. Good advice though - I'll get a couple as I only keep 12 gauge right now. I rarely if ever have to use long cable runs.
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A young child says to his mother, "Mom, when I grow up I'm going to be a musician." She replies, "Well honey, you know you can't do both."

Debbie Dunkley

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Re: So disappointing - generators didn't arrive..
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2016, 01:05:28 pm »

We dried everything out, re-coiled all the cables, put everything back where it should go (late last night we had 'help' and things got messy)..... and only one casualty - NOT relating to the equipment......The 'helpers' obviously didn't pay attention to how the  canopy cover was attached to the frame and ripped the crap out of it. So gotta buy a new one of those..... could have been much, much worse in that heavy prolonged rain.
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A young child says to his mother, "Mom, when I grow up I'm going to be a musician." She replies, "Well honey, you know you can't do both."

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Re: So disappointing - generators didn't arrive..
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2016, 01:05:28 pm »


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